Domestic Abuse

[Moonraker]

A comment about bullying in Blyton's books being domestic abuse, set me thinking. The longer I thought, the more I realised Enid's books were full of this. Tiger Dan and Lou were a pair of the cruellest villains and even Mr Hilton used to thrash Pip. The children in Hollow Tree House and The Secret Island fled from their homes because of cruelty (abuse) afflicted at them. Even Dame Slap used corporal punishment as her main method of discipline! The 'Fatty' books had plenty of 'abuse' in it's pages, either meted out by Goon or some villain or other.

Has this cruelty ever affected any of you? I must say, reading the books as a child in the 50s it didn't. I never even thought of bullying as abuse - just a necessary hazard of school-life. Did Enid go over the top with her cruel villains and (some) parents? I have memories of teachers in classrooms walking with a cane behind their backs. A now-deceased relative told me that his father had a belt hanging on a nail on a wall to remind him that if he stepped out of line, he would be thrashed.

Thankfully, I escaped the cane and was never thrashed, as such, as a child - maybe the occasional smacked-bottom, though!

[Katharine]

By co-incidence, I'd literally just finished having a conversation about whether it was any more acceptable for Dame Snap to shout in people's ears, than it was for Dame Slap to administer a slap.

Like Nigel, I never really thought about any of the punishments dealt out in Enid Blyton's books. When I was at school, children got a drumstick or plimsole across their hands if they were deemed to have misbehaved in class, more serious behaviour resulted in a caning. I never earned a punishment worse than staying in at breaktime and having to write out lines, but I daresay if I'd received a slap at school, I'd have considered that I deserved it, and would have more concerned about my parents finding out that I'd behaved badly.

Bullying is a difficult one, I did come in for quite a bit of teasing/name calling etc at school, but like Nigel, considered it part of school-life. The worse part perhaps was the jeering from one or two teachers, particularly from the PE teacher at high school, and that has affected me to the extent that I avoid most sporting activity, but then to be honest, I'm not sure I'd ever have enjoyed team games/sport as an adult as I really am very bad at it.

Reading the stories as an adult, I still don't notice much if someone mentions a slap etc, the moments that have moved me most as the strawberry plants incident or when Aunt Margaret throws the shells and seaweed into the fire.

I know Enid Blyton used corporal punishment as being normal behaviour, which it was when the books were written, but she generally didn't show bullying etc to be acceptable - I've just read a short story about a bully who gets his comeuppance, but even then, the children he bullied don't gloat in his punishment, but forgive him and end up being friends. I don't remember her writing any stories which involve people getting their own back/revenge.

[Nair Snehalatha]

In The Naughtiest Girl Again-- there is Robert the bully-- he became a bully as he felt his parents did not give him as much love as they gsve to his younger siblings.At Whyteleafe school the children-- deal out punishments in the school meetings-- Robert was given the charge of the horses as he loved horses-- this was done to give him respinsibility in a work he loved. Robert became most populsr later.Mr. Hilton did not thrash.Pip, but caned him.There were jeering girls and teachers too when.I was a child--nten or eleven years old.The Geography teacher took real delight in writing remarks like-- 'Disgraceful' -- Very poor work '- etc in my geography copies.

[John Pickup]

No, it never affected me either, Nigel. In my experience parents were strict but fair. I was smacked for wrongdoing and I was caned at school, on the hand, but I've never thought of this as domestic abuse.
Some of the villains in Enid's books were really nasty and their treatment of children was definitely shocking. But it was all part of the story to me and I was never traumatised by the bullying and the cruelty.

[Julie2owlsdene]

Growing up in the 50's and going to school in those days, teachers were hitting the kids all the time, and it wasn't condemned as it is these days. I guess when one looks back it was sheer bullying and cruelty from the teachers, but no kid reported it at all, and I thought nothing of it.

Reading Enid's books, the cruel villains or the bullying child didn't worry me, as I knew in true Blyton style they wouldn't win in the end.

But reading some of the stories now, as an adult and a grandmother, I shiver at some things I read. Tupping, the nasty man. And the way he picked up Buster by the scruff of his collar, pure cruelty. I hate even seeing the picture of that one. The way Ragamuffin Jo lived her life with cruelty. I don't also like to read now of cruelty to the animals in Blyton's books. Poor Tinker the dog, named by the Five as Stinker. They may not have like Edgar Stick, but his dog was an innocent animal, and the Five should have been kinder to his poor dog, who must have lived a life of hell with that family!

Although Enid wrote these things into her books in years gone by, which was accepted, these days it isn't accepted, which I guess is why the wording is changed to fit the times of today.

[Hannah]

I never worried about punishments by parents/caregivers or teachers that were fair.

I found other punishments and abuse upsetting but it was - often an important - part of the story and most times done by villains or at least by people who were described as not nice (like in Secret Island and Hollow Tree House) or - let's say "difficult" in case of Goon . So I didn't mind these descriptions either.

[Boatbuilder]

Although Enid wrote these things into her books in years gone by, which was accepted, these days it isn't accepted, which I guess is why the wording is changed to fit the times of today.

But they don't change the wording of any occurrences of similar abuse in the so-called 'Classics' such as Dickens, etc. Look at how Oliver Twist was treated.

I never worried about punishments by parents/caregivers or teachers that were fair.

I found other punishments and abuse upsetting but it was - often an important - part of the story and most times done by villains or at least by people who were described as not nice (like in Secret Island and Hollow Tree House) or - let's say "difficult" in case of Goon . So I didn't mind these descriptions either.

I agree with you there, Hannah. Life wasn't, and still isn't, all roses. It is all too easy to write stories where the world seems perfect but it's not. There is too much serious crime in the younger generation these days and I wouldn't mind betting that very few (if any) of those who commit it read Enid Blyton books, or if they did, they weren't influenced by acts carried out in them.

[pete9012S]

A comment about bullying in Blyton's books being domestic abuse, set me thinking...

Nigel, I'm currently re-reading Tally Ho Cottage from 1954 and wondered if this passage had been pruned?


CHAPTER 3
POPPET THE POODLE

‘Poppet! Poppet! Where is that wretched dog!’ said the man in an
exasperated voice. ‘Wait till I get you, I’ll show you I mean what I ses!
Slipping out like that! I won’t half thrash you!’

The man suddenly saw the little dog hiding in the bushes. He pounced
on her and gripped her. She whined in sudden fear. The man shook her
angrily.
‘I’ll teach you to slip out like this! I’ll give you a real good lamming!’
‘Here, hold on,’ said Fatty, at once. ‘She’s only a little thing.’

‘What an unpleasant pair,’ said Fatty, as they walked on. They suddenly
heard dismal howls coming from the cottage and looked miserably at one
another. Poppet must be getting her ‘lamming’. Horrid old man!

Has this been altered in modern editions??

[Boodi 2]

Like Nigel, I never really thought about any of the punishments dealt out in Enid Blyton's books. When I was at school, children got a drumstick or plimsole across their hands if they were deemed to have misbehaved in class, more serious behaviour resulted in a caning. I never earned a punishment worse than staying in at breaktime and having to write out lines, but I daresay if I'd received a slap at school, I'd have considered that I deserved it, and would have more concerned about my parents finding out that I'd behaved badly.

My experience is much the same and when I was at school the teacher hit my hands with a ruler because I "got my sums wrong". I later had to stay late in school to write out lines because I misbehaved during a maths test and like Katherine my main concern was that my parents would find out and be angry and/or ashamed! Such punishment was deemed normal at that time and I never questioned it when reading the books.

[Hannah]

I've got the Kindle edition, Pete.
"I won’t half thrash you!’" has gone (without any replacement), "‘I’ll teach you to slip out like this! I’ll give you a real good lamming!’" and "They suddenly heard dismal howls coming from the cottage and looked miserably at one another. Poppet must be getting her ‘lamming’. Horrid old man!", too.

[pete9012S]

Many thanks Hannah - I thought that sounded harsh even for the 1954 edition!

[GloomyGraham]

I'd expect, as with most people, that any punishment I received from teachers or parents was deserved.

One thing that probably doesn't fit with 'bullying' was a comment in a school report when I was 7 or 8, saying that in PE (mainly football/soccer) I was 'too timid' which upset me.

In the next game I played I got chaired off the field as 'man of the match' though, so maybe it had a positive effect.

[Katharine]

I wonder why Enid's books come in for so much editing?

I'm currently watching the Harry Potter films, and I wondered why J K Rowling's (excellent) books aren't criticized.

They start with an orphaned boy being made to sleep in the cupboard under the stairs by his aunt and uncle. He wears glasses that are broken and hand me down clothes which don't fit whereas his cousin gets everything new. Apart from the physical and mental cruelty here, why didn't the school or social services step in? Surely someone would have noticed?

Then there is Professor Snape who constantly picks on Harry during lessons, deducting house points at the slightest excuse.

Possibly the worst villain is Dolores Umbridge, who is not only a teacher, but is also working for the wizarding world's government. Her method of getting is children to write lines is barbaric, and she's not above trying to use forbidden curses on the pupils in order to extract information.

Obviously I wouldn't want the Harry Potter books to be altered - I think they are very well written, but equally I fail to understand why Dame Slap is no longer allowed to administer corporal punishment, and yet Harry Potter can have bars on his window and be locked in his bedroom?

[Viv of Ginger Pop]

I was thinking about The Beano comic from the 1970s the other day

Teacher in the Bash Street kids was never seen without his cane.
Dennis the Menace usually ended up getting slippered by his dad
Sundry other characters would get sundry other punishments,

It was always adults hitting kids, but I don't ever recall men hitting women in children's stories

Viv

[Irene Malory Towers]

EB wrote a few times about parents beating their kids - Pip, Snubby, (OK his uncle) Sooty, Jock (step fathers) and and I am sure a few others but I think that was just a sign of the times, not acceptable nowadays but it was then. Most of her books were written 70 or even 80 years ago now. I think the reasons that Harry Potter's books do not have that violence edited out, is that firstly they are for slightly older children (and the later books are really teenagers and beyond) and secondly they are so obviously fantasy that nobody can take them as an expression of reality. Having said that there may be other children's books where there is also a degree of violence that has not been edited out. I do think that Enid Blyton's books have undergone far too much editing and she has been singled out.

At my bother's school (and he is 58) kids were caned if they misbehaved themselves and one of my friends told me that a teacher broke a couple of boy's fingers ! It is incredible that this was allowed within my lifetime but yes it was allowed. I wonder what his parents said at the time.

As been discussed many times here i think it best if her books had not been edited as it allows kids to see how society was in those days, and how it has progressed (or not). Nobody pretends it was all rosy then, and of course it is not rosy now - but there are different problems we are having to face.