Editorial Changes in the Famous Five Series

[Anita Bensoussane]

I'd do the same as you if I were writing a spin-off, Fiona, and rephrase things like that sensitively while still retaining all the Blytonian elements.

[Courtenay]

I totally agree, Fiona, and think that's very well done — bringing in the "never seen a black man" element is a reminder that people of other skin colours DO look very "different" if you've only ever seen white people, as would have been the case for a lot of Britons, especially in rural areas, in the 1940s and earlier. I grew up in an all-white community in rural(ish) Australia in the 1980s and I remember very well how unusual it was to see black or brown or Asian people and how odd they looked (when I was a really little girl) compared to the people I saw every day.

Enid's "me poor n-word" dialogue for Sam is jaw-droppingly awful — same with the way the Japanese guards speak later in the book — but I assume she was simply imitating what a lot of writers did in the past. She'd most likely read Huckleberry Finn, I'm guessing, with Jim the slave speaking pidgin English and using the n-word regularly, and perhaps other books with similar characters. She'd obviously also read Joel Chandler Harris's original Brer Rabbit stories in African-American dialect, since she wrote her own versions in more standard English. So I guess she must have genuinely assumed that black Americans really talked like that in real life in the mid-20th century — understandable if she herself had never met any in person, which is likely.

[Irene Malory Towers]

Perhaps the Royal Family could do with a few editorial changes !! hee, hee. Given the explosive interview that Meghan Markle and Prince Harry did with Oprah Winfrey. I don't normally bring in politics into this forum but the news is awash with this so it is on my mind. Although I am sure there are 2 sides to this story, or several sides - the Press, Thomas Markle, the Royal Family, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle and probably a few other interested parties !

[Pet]

the "never seen a black man" element

I was born in 1946 and raised in Southend-on-Sea (Essex, England). I can recall quite vividly the first time I saw black people. My mother had taken me to London, probably to do Christmas shopping. It must have been the late 1940s or early 1950s. I saw, on the other side of the road, a group of three or four black men and was astonished. My surprise was not that they were black, but that they wore ordinary clothes. I'd seen pictures of black people in books and knew (or thought I knew) that they wore grass skirts.

If I'd been a little older, I might have seen black American servicemen during the war. But, in the late 1940s and early 1950s England, one didn't see black people outside the large cities. Enid Blyton's fiction seems to me distinctly English and the 1940s-1950s is the era for much of it.

[Fiona1986]

Thank you for the feedback, Anita and Courtenay.

I thought that Bill would be sufficiently well-travelled to find black people perfectly ordinary, and I hoped that his calm, but also slightly despairing reaction to David and Effans would be a nice balance to their slight hysteria.

I always find the pidgin English an awkward thing. Non-native speakers CAN often sound somewhat like that (without the self-deprecating 'poor foreigner, not worthy' stuff). Obviously it can be offensive if everyone of a particular background speaks that way, or it's implied they speak that way because they are less intelligent or educated than the native English speakers. I wonder how it's dealt with in say, French novels? Do English or other language speakers speak pidgin French in their books and films of that era or now?

[Courtenay]

I wonder how it's dealt with in say, French novels? Do English or other language speakers speak pidgin French in their books and films of that era or now?

I don't know the answer to your question, Fiona, but is anyone else here having visions of Officer Crabtree from 'Allo 'Allo!...?

[Fiona1986]

Well I wasn't, but I am now

[dsr]

Ive had a query in my mind on these lines regarding the reprints . Considering the Barney series , the first HC of Rockingdown mystery published was by Collins in 1955 .Once Armada started publishing them in paperback they did so continuously for quite some years. Until 1997 Colin's again published it in paperback .So is it likely that the 1997 print was the original text as it was Collins again and not Armada ?
( I understand Collins had further prints in 1956 and 1967 but I'd only like to consider that since Collins never came into picture all along once Armada started , could they have printed the original text once they came into the scene in 1997) .What are your thoughts ?

A belated comment about Armada - they had rigid rules about the length of their books. They all had to be the same, pretty much. So a lot of hardbacks were severely cut down - both Monica Edwards and Malcom Saville could lose a third of their text. There could be a possibility the same may have happened with Enid Blyton, perhaps?

[Courtenay]

I always find the pidgin English an awkward thing. Non-native speakers CAN often sound somewhat like that (without the self-deprecating 'poor foreigner, not worthy' stuff). Obviously it can be offensive if everyone of a particular background speaks that way, or it's implied they speak that way because they are less intelligent or educated than the native English speakers. I wonder how it's dealt with in say, French novels? Do English or other language speakers speak pidgin French in their books and films of that era or now?

Back to pidgin French, I just remembered reading a book some years ago about the Asterix comics and how they were translated into English. In many of the books there's the recurring gag about a gang of pirates whose ship gets sunk every time. One of the pirates is a black man and in the original French versions, he spoke in pidgin French — which was turned into pidgin English in the early translated editions (I've seen one or two of them). Some time later, with growing concerns about racial stereotyping, the English translations were revised and the black pirate now speaks standard English. I don't know whether the French originals have been changed as well.

[Wolfgang]

In the German editions Baba (the black crew member of the pirates) can't say "r"s.

[Anita Bensoussane]

I always find the pidgin English an awkward thing. Non-native speakers CAN often sound somewhat like that (without the self-deprecating 'poor foreigner, not worthy' stuff). Obviously it can be offensive if everyone of a particular background speaks that way, or it's implied they speak that way because they are less intelligent or educated than the native English speakers. I wonder how it's dealt with in say, French novels? Do English or other language speakers speak pidgin French in their books and films of that era or now?

I just remembered reading a book some years ago about the Asterix comics and how they were translated into English. In many of the books there's the recurring gag about a gang of pirates whose ship gets sunk every time. One of the pirates is a black man and in the original French versions, he spoke in pidgin French — which was turned into pidgin English in the early translated editions (I've seen one or two of them). Some time later, with growing concerns about racial stereotyping, the English translations were revised and the black pirate now speaks standard English. I don't know whether the French originals have been changed as well.

There's actually nothing wrong with having a pirate speaking a pidgin language. After all, a pidgin language often operates as a lingua franca, enabling people from different backgrounds to communicate, and many pirates would have spoken pidgin languages.

However, it's likely that a paratrooper like Sam in The Mountain of Adventure would speak a more formal kind of English.

In the German editions Baba (the black crew member of the pirates) can't say "r"s.

I always had trouble rolling my Rs in French lessons at school, though I've got a bit better at it as an adult.

[Irene Malory Towers]

I recently bought an early edition of Five go to Mystery Moor and I was amazed to see all the text changes compared to my kindle version. As well as all references to gypsies being replaced with travellers there is a hilarious interchange between Captain Johnson and Henry(ietta) which has been completely missed out. "Yes" said Henrietta (to Captain Johnson. He says (and this is what is missed out) "Yes, sir. If you want to act like a boy, be one, and say 'sir' when you speak to me, if you can't bother to remember I've got a name. It's, .."

Also earlier when Anne refers to the camp that Dick and Julian go to she says We couldn't do the things they do" which has been missed out. This puts George's reply into the correct context (which is in the kindle version) when she thinks she can do everything they can do. Sniffer also refers to George when she is on her own as Master George. Dark eyed children (of the gypsies/travellors) has been changed to bright eyed children, And there are a other phrases that have been changed or just missed out, eg Sniffer's tears making pale tracks down his dirty face after he has been cuffed by his father.

[pete9012S]

Most interesting Irene. Thank you.
Have there been any changes to this passage in the modern editions?

Chapter Nineteen
GOOD OLD TIM!

‘Woof,’ said Timmy, scornfully.
‘It’s all very well to say “Woof” like that,’ said Henry, ‘but I’m not as brave as you are. I pretend I am, Timmy, but I’m not really. I’m afraid of following you! I’m afraid of going to find the others. I might be caught too. And there’s a terrible mist, Timmy, you know.’

Henry slid out of bed, and Timmy looked suddenly hopeful. Was this silly girl going to make up her mind at last?
‘Timmy, there’s no grown-up here tonight except Mrs Johnson, and I really can’t wake her,’ said Henry. ‘She’s had such a very hard, busy day. I’m going to dress, and then get William. He’s only eleven, I know, but he’s very sensible, and he’s a boy. He’ll know what to do. I only pretend to be a boy.’

She dressed quickly in her riding things and then set off to William’s room. He slept by himself across the landing. Henry walked in and switched on her torch.
William awoke at once. ‘Who’s there?’ he demanded, sitting up at once. ‘What do you want?’
‘It’s me. Henry,’ said Henry. ‘William, a most extraordinary thing has happened. Timmy has arrived in my room with a note on his collar. Read it!’

William took the note and read it. He was most astonished. ‘Look,’ he said, ‘George has signed herself Georgina. She wouldn’t do that unless things were very urgent. She never, never lets herself be called anything but George. We’ll have to follow Tim and go, at once, too’

‘But I can’t walk miles in a mist over the moor,’ said Henry, in a panic.
‘We don’t need to. We’ll saddle our horses and go on those,’ said William, beginning to dress, and sounding very sensible indeed. ‘Timmy will lead the way. You go and get the horses out. Do buck up, Henry. The others may be in danger. You’re acting like a Henrietta!’

[Anita Bensoussane]

Thanks, Irene. It's a pity that so much has been altered. I'd be interested to know if there have been any changes to the passage quoted by Pete.

[Irene Malory Towers]

Interesting - yes there is one change, subtle but significant if you know what I mean. The references to William being a boy and her pretending to be a boy have been removed. So here it is,
I’m going to dress, and then get William. He’s only eleven, I know, but he’s very sensible.’

She dressed quickly, etc etc

In conclusion the modern editors do not like the implication that boys know more than girls and are braver too ! It certainly fits in with current thinking so I can see why they have made it but as we have commented before in the context of EB's time it was more appropriate. Also the boys being braver than girls etc sentiment helps to explain George and Harry's desires to want to be boys.