Reality on The Secret Island

[Jack400]

The social concept of "allowing children to be children" and being enforced by the society is rather new, at least in Western societies with Eurpopean roots.

I'm not sure that I agree with that, Wolfgang. The books seemed quite sympathetic to the idea that children had to be allowed to play and have fun as well as having to do chores and generally be well behaved/ respectful. Rather than be treated as 'slaves'.

[Rob Houghton]

When Enid had the Arnold children being treated as slaves, I think it had more to do with the tradition of fairy-tales (such as Cinderella) than reflecting real life of the times. Step Mothers (or aunts) were often the baddies in Enid's books, making children into slaves and servants because they were fulfilling the part of 'wicked step mother' etc. Most children who were in 'normal' families weren't treated like this in her books.

Also, with no welfare state in those days, no NHS etc, if people couldn't really afford children (like Jack's grandfather) then the children had to 'earn their keep' by doing chores. Jacks Grandfather would have been very badly off, probably not able to work for a living, etc.

[Jack400]

How very true, Rob. Ah the "good old days"!

[Wolfgang]

The social concept of "allowing children to be children" and being enforced by the society is rather new, at least in Western societies with Eurpopean roots.

I'm not sure that I agree with that, Wolfgang. The books seemed quite sympathetic to the idea that children had to be allowed to play and have fun as well as having to do chores and generally be well behaved/ respectful. Rather than be treated as 'slaves'.

Enid was in favour of this concept, and over time children's rights improved. When I speak of relatively new, I mean less than 200 years.

[Tony Summerfield]

I guess all I can do is compare my FF books with the Cave of Books illustrations assuming that Tony has ALL illustrations from each FF volume.
This turns into detective work.

I have come here from another thread and I hadn't seen your post, Chrissie, but perhaps I had better say again something I haven't said for a while. All internal illustrations in the Cave are taken from 1st editions - if something comes from a later edition I say so. If it makes it any easier all Famous Five books originally had 32 internal illustrations.

[Fiona1986]

The social concept of "allowing children to be children" and being enforced by the society is rather new, at least in Western societies with Eurpopean roots.

I'm not sure that I agree with that, Wolfgang. The books seemed quite sympathetic to the idea that children had to be allowed to play and have fun as well as having to do chores and generally be well behaved/ respectful. Rather than be treated as 'slaves'.

When Enid had the Arnold children being treated as slaves, I think it had more to do with the tradition of fairy-tales (such as Cinderella) than reflecting real life of the times. Step Mothers (or aunts) were often the baddies in Enid's books, making children into slaves and servants because they were fulfilling the part of 'wicked step mother' etc. Most children who were in 'normal' families weren't treated like this in her books.

Also, with no welfare state in those days, no NHS etc, if people couldn't really afford children (like Jack's grandfather) then the children had to 'earn their keep' by doing chores. Jacks Grandfather would have been very badly off, probably not able to work for a living, etc.

I think the difference is that many children had to work around the home and help out because things were dire. Some were fastidious and hard-working, others slacked off a lot. The Arnold children worked incredibly hard, were respectful and polite and took it all with surprisingly good grace considering they were brought up in a much more affluent and comfortable home. Yet they are treated as if they are work-shy, ungrateful and rude. They are slapped for making genuine mistakes and starved for extremely minor 'crimes'.

[Chrissie777]

I have come here from another thread and I hadn't seen your post, Chrissie, but perhaps I had better say again something I haven't said for a while. All internal illustrations in the Cave are taken from 1st editions - if something comes from a later edition I say so. If it makes it any easier all Famous Five books originally had 32 internal illustrations.

Thank you, Tony.

[GloomyGraham]

To my knowledge, zombies don't perform normal bodily functions.

lol - I meant the non-zombie survivors never seem to dig trenches etc since the sewage systems wouldn't be maintained. And that toilet paper would - no doubt - be in short supply, just like petrol should be

[kirstleecurry]

Old thread I know, but I'm reminded of one of my favourite TV shows, Survivor... going to the loo is generally overlooked, unless it's the case of #severeintestinaldistress but generally they tend to do their business in the water, a very jolly term has been coined for that technique as well!
Growing up in South Africa - and used to bushveld holidays, I just assumed they did a wee behind a bush... as to the rest well, I tried NOT to think too hard about it!!!

[dsr]

Just where did those kids go to the loo?!! Can't even begin to think of how they would have had to deal with that. No loo paper presumably. And that would be an issue when the island was searched surely? Yes, kids books don't mention things like that, but when you read as an adult, you can't help wondering LOL

How big is the island? I visited Ireland two or three years back, and saw the Isle of Innisfree in Sligo/Donegal. The one the song is about. It's a big island and is covered with trees; there would be plenty of room for a "bathroom" corner. Leaves and shovels have been mentioned already!

The thing about an island like Innisfree is that it has trees everywhere. Right down to the water's edge. If there was anyone on the lake, or looking from the shore, they wouldn't see a child who was a couple of yards back from the island shore because the trees and bushes are too thick. Put that island on a slightly quieter lake, and it could work.