Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

The books! Over seven hundred of them and still counting...
Post Reply
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26895
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Nicko wrote:For (hopefully) a future journal article I've recently been lucky enough to speak to one or two people connected with these series (including Cloud Nine head Ray Thompson and writer of Killimooin Charles Hodges). They explained why so many changes had to be made and it was clear from talking to them that they are genuine fans of Enid Blyton's work.
I look forward to reading the comments from people connected with the two Cloud 9 series, Nick. Although Killimooin is probably my least-liked Secret adaptation, I do find the acting good and, as I said before, I think Thaddeus and Charley are very strong throughout the series.

I'd be interested to know more about the actor playing Mike. In two of the stories he either disappears from the action right near the beginning and isn't in the adventure at all (Moon Castle) or has very little screen time and is mostly shown lying in bed (Killimooin). I was wondering whether something had cropped up, e.g. illness or family commitments, which affected his ability to play the role.

I'm another one who prefers the Cloud 9 Adventure series, though again some episodes are better than others.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
Liam
Posts: 295
Joined: 01 Jan 2013, 00:02
Favourite book/series: Famous Five
Favourite character: George
Location: New York

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Liam »

The following is highly speculative, but some people might find it interesting.

The idea below occurred to me during the last reading marathon, but I didn’t comment because I wasn’t sure where it was leading.
… on my last reading of The Secret of Killimooin I could not help thinking that EB was more sensitive to racial stereotypes than she is given credit for. I was intrigued by the idea of a stone-age culture existing in the middle of Europe. Such a plot would seem to be more realistically located in Africa. Was EB’s mind still in an “African mode” when she got round to writing Killimooin? Or did she first have this idea while she was writing The Secret Mountain (the book before Killimooin), but on better judgement left it for a more politically correct setting?
Now I am able to flesh it out a bit more.

My suggestion: the name Killimooin was derived from the name Kilimanjaro and the phrase “Mountains of the Moon” which may refer to Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania in eastern Africa. Tanzania is a union of the former mainland country of Tanganyika and the island nation of Zanzibar. Zanzibar has a heavy Arabic and Persian influence and heritage. At the time of publication of The Secret Mountain and The Secret of Killimooin, the two nations had not yet united.
wikipedia wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Kil ... Digital-11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mount Kilimanjaro … with its three volcanic cones, "Kibo", "Mawenzi", and "Shira", is a dormant volcano in Tanzania. It is the highest mountain in Africa…
...
Shira is topped by a broad plateau at 3,800 metres (12,500 ft), which may be a filled caldera.

The mountain may have been known to non-Africans since antiquity. Sailors' reports recorded by Ptolemy mention a "Moon Mountain" and a spring lake of the Nile, which may indicate Kilimanjaro … Martín Fernández de Enciso… said in his Summa de Geografía (1519) that west of Mombasa … and beyond it are the Mountains of the Moon, in which are the sources of the Nile".[20][32]:1–5[33]:114
In the EB story there are also three mountains, and one with a flat top:
The Secret Mountain wrote: “We’re not going to the top,” said Mike. “All we are doing is climbing to a place where we can pass between two mountains. Ranni says we shall strike off to the east there, by that enormous rock, and make our way to a place where this mountain and the next one meet. There is a pass between them -- and from there we can see the Secret Mountain!”

Ran-ni turned to the listening children. “Do you see that mountain over there, with clouds rolling round it? Wait till they clear a little, and you will see that the mountain has a curiously flat top. You will also see that it has a yellowish look, because, so this fellow says, a rare yellow bush grows there, which at some season of the year turns a fiery red.”
Had EB written the major plot of what is now The Secret of Killimooin in an African setting, but because of fears it might be criticized for being racially insensitive, rewritten the story as the Secret Mountain? And later did she reuse the plot of the first writing for the next book in the series? That could account for the incongruities of the publication of The Secret of Killimooin. If the writing of the series had proceeded in a natural way, the next title would have been what it was advertised as, “The Secret Forest”. But did EB choose to resurrect and adapt an earlier manuscript written in an African setting?
David Cook’s review in the Cave of Books wrote:The advent of this fourth story brought with it its own mystery — a change of titling. Advance publicity prior to publication had given a far more suitable and intriguing title — "The Secret Forest". This original title certainly gave the reader a greater expectation of what the story was about than the mysterious Killimooin, which referred to a range of mountains. The Secret Forest certainly plays a major part in the story and is certainly referred to far more than the mountain range, so why was the title changed?

The only guess I can make on this is that it would have put the second book, The Secret of Spiggy Holes out of step with the rest of the series and all Enid's individual stories were given distinction and uniformity in the manner of their titling. To bring in a second "The Secret of ... " title balanced the series up more. The Secret Series was Enid's first major holiday adventure series and she never made this mistake again in all her subsequent series, in which the individual titling made plain which series they belonged to.
The thing about such a decision is that it would have occurred on the fourth book in the series, with two of the previous three titles being phrased as “The Secret…”, only the second book having the word “of” in it. So if the titling had continued as the majority till then, all but the second book would be different, since the last book could have been called “The Secret Castle”.
David Cook’s review in the Cave of Books wrote:On arrival at the castle they meet the caretakers, Tooku and his wife Yamen
The names “Tooku” and “Yamen” plus the goatskin trousers that the character Beowald was wearing, plus the fact he was half naked and barefooted, also hint at an African setting.

The historical (19th century) slave trade from Zanzibar provides the parallel to the fear the villagers had for the Mountain Folk. EB replaced the island location with a mountain. This colonial history would have been more current to someone at the beginning of the 20th century.
Wikipedia wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanzibar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
During his 14-year reign as sultan, Majid bin Said consolidated his power around the local slave trade. Malindi in Zanzibar City was the Swahili Coast's main port for the slave trade with the Middle East. In the mid-19th century, as many as 50,000 slaves passed annually through the port.

Many were captives of Tippu Tib, a notorious Arab slave trader and ivory merchant. Tib led huge expeditions, some 4,000 strong, into the African interior, where chiefs sold him their villagers for next to nothing. These Tib used to caravan ivory back to Zanzibar, then sold them in the slave market for large profits. In time Tib became one of the wealthiest men in Zanzibar, the owner of multiple plantations and 10,000 slaves.[18]
The main plotlines of the two stories are also similar. A plane trip oversees, landing in a plain, then journeying up into a mountain. The weather on the plains is also extremely hot in both stories.
User avatar
Darrell71
Posts: 3027
Joined: 19 Jun 2012, 15:35
Favourite book/series: Adventure series
Favourite character: Darrell Rivers, Bill Smugs, Kiki, Elizabeth Allen,
Location: USA

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Darrell71 »

I agree, there are quite a few similarities between the two. It's also possible that she got a rough idea about a forest in the middle of a mountain range while writing The Secret Mountain, and as her mind was in Africa, some other elements from that region entered her head. But not wanting to set two books in Africa, she decided to take the company over to Baronia. All of this is speculation, of course.
I can't find an explanation for the changed name though, unless one of those 'other elements' was Mount Kilimanjaro. However, I also agree with this point:
It would have put the second book, The Secret of Spiggy Holes out of step with the rest of the series and all Enid's individual stories were given distinction and uniformity in the manner of their titling. To bring in a second "The Secret of ... " title balanced the series up more.
She probably hadn't thought about Moon Castle at all at that point, so there was a chance that Spiggy Holes would be the odd man out, so to say. If that was the case, then it was remarkable forethought on her part, I'd say.
You can call me Sunskriti!
Liam
Posts: 295
Joined: 01 Jan 2013, 00:02
Favourite book/series: Famous Five
Favourite character: George
Location: New York

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Liam »

My explanation is definitely heavy handed - like trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer!

But the thing about David Cook’s explanation is that he gets two titles as the odd ones out (The Secret Island, and The Secret Mountain), and three of another kind (with the word “of”). Whereas if the title of the fourth book had been The Secret Forest, that would potentially have left only Spiggy Holes as the odd one out, since the last could have been named The Secret Castle - that is, if it was uniformity of titles that was the problem.
User avatar
Rob Houghton
Posts: 16029
Joined: 26 Feb 2005, 22:38
Favourite book/series: Rubadub Mystery, Famous Five and The Find-Outers
Favourite character: Snubby, Uncle Robert, George, Fatty
Location: Kings Norton, Birmingham

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Rob Houghton »

It could just as easily be said that Enid planned two titles of each type - two without the 'of' - The Secret Mountain and The Secret Island - and two with the 'of' - The Secret of Spiggy Holes and The Secret of Killimooin. I don't think it was likely that Enid planned a fifth title, as it didn't follow until 10 years later. This would make the title change more understandable, as in 1943 there would have been only one title using 'of' if Killimooin had retained its 'Secret Forest' title.

I much prefer the title 'Secret of Killimoon' to 'The Secret Forest' - it's much more intriguing, and as a child the two titles I found most interesting were 'Killimooin' and 'Spiggy-holes' 8)
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



Society Member
Liam
Posts: 295
Joined: 01 Jan 2013, 00:02
Favourite book/series: Famous Five
Favourite character: George
Location: New York

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Liam »

I can see what you are saying (Darrell and Rob). I factored in Moon Castle to get 4 to 1 of the titles. But just considering the titles up to the fourth book, 2 to 2 of titles was probably the better solution.

Oh well, there goes my theory! :oops:
timv
Posts: 928
Joined: 31 Jul 2015, 10:06

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by timv »

My own theory for the 'Killimooin' story is that Enid got the idea from the real-life Carpathian Mountains , in Romania / Rumania - which do have extensive unusual wildlife not seen at all or so frequently elsewhere in Europe, eg wild bears and wolves, plus semi-wild shepherds (some nomadic) with fierce sheepdogs. This would have been even more so in the 1930s, and the notion of a wild tribe of 'Stone Age' survivals living in a hidden valley and emerging to rob the locals was more plausible there than elsewhere. Enid is one of the few people to have used the 'Stone Age survivals' idea - as far as I know the only other early one was John Buchan, the thriller-writer, in his short stories where he had Neolithic pagan robbers and kidnappers at large in 1910s Galloway, Scotland. There were also ancient tribal survivals - in Africa - in various Tarzan films. (In the 1960s, there was a more well-behaved Stone Age tribe boy in modern England in the children's book 'Stig of the Dump'.) Also, the Romanian royal family had a summer residence of a castle (not new like Killimooin but restored), Bran Castle, in the mountains in the 1930s - one connected by legend wth Dracula!

You can get a good flavour of the semi-wildness of the wilder parts of Romania and of the Carpathians in particular in the works of Patrick Leigh Fermor who crossed them on foot in 1934, in 'Between the Woods and the Water'. This was written and published a lot later and so not available to Enid; I assume she knew the basics about Romania from the 1930s autobiography of and magazine articles by Queen Marie, grand-daughter of Queen Victoria and a regular visitor to the UK. The name of one of Prince Paul's bodyguards, 'Pilsecu', is Rumanian. But it would be nice to know if any details of Enid's own collection of books or magazines has survived in her personal archive (presumably in the US?) to be certain that she was aware of these details - though I think the chances are against this all being coincidence.
Society Member
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26895
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Romania and the Balkans region do seem a likely influence, though Liam's comment about the name "Killimooin" possibly being inspired by "the name Kilimanjaro and the phrase “Mountains of the Moon”" is also interesting.
timv wrote:...it would be nice to know if any details of Enid's own collection of books or magazines has survived in her personal archive (presumably in the US?)

Why would Enid Blyton's personal archive (if such a thing exists) be in the US?
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
User avatar
Paul Austin
Posts: 826
Joined: 09 Aug 2011, 15:30

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Paul Austin »

Enid Blyton's personal archive was largely destroyed by her second husband in order to protect her image. Beethoven's writing boards were similarly altered or destroyed in order to preserve a desired image of him.
"History is the parts of the past that the present finds useful" - Anon
User avatar
Fiona1986
Posts: 10546
Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:35
Favourite book/series: Five Go to Smuggler's Top
Favourite character: Julian Kirrin
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Contact:

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Fiona1986 »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:
I'd be interested to know more about the actor playing Mike. In two of the stories he either disappears from the action right near the beginning and isn't in the adventure at all (Moon Castle) or has very little screen time and is mostly shown lying in bed (Killimooin). I was wondering whether something had cropped up, e.g. illness or family commitments, which affected his ability to play the role.
I'm watching Moon Castle right now and I was wondering the same thing! I'm going to wait until I've watched all the episodes then go back and read the relevant Journal articles as I'm rather behind on my journals.
"It's the ash! It's falling!" yelled Julian, almost startling Dick out of his wits...
"Listen to its terrible groans and creaks!" yelled Julian, almost beside himself with impatience.


World of Blyton Blog

Society Member
Liam
Posts: 295
Joined: 01 Jan 2013, 00:02
Favourite book/series: Famous Five
Favourite character: George
Location: New York

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Liam »

I have found the silver bullet, the proof that the idea for the Secret Forest robbers did occur to EB while writing the Secret Mountain (and I did not even have to ask Tony to look into his EB archive!):
The secret Mountain Chapter ten wrote: “Walk through the rock!” said Jack. “That sounds a bit like Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves. Do you remember -- the robbers made their home in a cave inside a hill -- and when the robber chief said ‘Open Sesame!’ a rock slid aside -- and they all went in!”
The secret Mountain Chapter twelve wrote: “It not only swung round, it slid to one side,” said Ranni. “Just like the rock in the story of Ali Baba that you told me! And behind it was a great door in the mountain-side studded with shining knobs that glittered in the sun!”
This is the very idea that forms the central plot of The Secret of Killimooin:
The secret of Killimooin Chapter ten wrote: Jack was so amazed that he could not say a word. The statue split completely in half, the two halves moving right apart -- and then, from the floor of the flat rock beneath, a man’s shaggy head appeared, full in the moonlight -- the head of one of the robbers!
It did not occur exactly as I had thought - not a full manuscript or fears of racial insensitivity - but when EB developed this idea in The Secret of Killimooin, she did include elements closely connected to the previous story. I have already noted the names Tooku and Yamen appearing to be African (the setting of the previous story), and the clothing and lack of clothing of the goatherd Beowald.

The two stories are similar in structure, more so than usual. This is especially true with the characters of Mafumu and Beowald. Beowald and his goats take the place of Mafumu and his uncle. Beowald is Mafumu. The little goats - the kids - take the place of Mafumu’s playfulness, and the older goat with the curled horns is Mafumu’s uncle (Beowald refers to it as “old one”). It is this goat which actually leads the way further up the mountain to overlook the Secret Forest. This is Mafumu’s uncle, the guide who took the party to the spot between the two other mountains to see the Secret Mountain in the distance. And even when at the end they go back to the castle in the mist, it is this goat who leads them and Beowald. But Beowald is much older than Mafumu - he is a youth on the verge of manhood. And he is in charge of his “uncle” the goat! Whose “spears”, now curled horns, are blunted. We had had a premonition of this at the very end of Secret Mountain, when Ranni had thought that Mafumu was brave and smart enough to be chief of his village one day, and when Mafumu had strutted off with all his gifts and the villagers, including the uncle, had all run scared from him.

When Beowald goes down into the tunnel to search for the children, even though he is blind and is especially fearful since he is in unfamiliar terrain, that is Mafumu when he finds a way into the Secret Mountain to rescue the others by swimming under water. Both are enveloped in darkness.

Beowald lived in a double darkness - he slept during the day and was awake at night. But we do have a clue to the origin of Beowald’s blindness. At the end of the Secret Mountain, one of the gifts that Mafumu gets is a pair of sunglasses. Beowald’s blindness also gives him the dark complexion of Mafumu.

Also, there is a desire to continue the relationship with both Beowald and Mafumu. Paul wants to reward Beowald by having him come to live and work at the palace, and the children express the wish to bring Mafumu back to England. The same conclusion is reached in the end, that both those things would make Beowald and Mafumu unhappy to leave their homes.

Also a remarkable amount of attention is paid to the feet of Mafumu and Beowald. Mafumu hurts his bare foot when he gets a thorn in it, which is removed and the foot bandaged by Ranni and Pilescu. And Beowald’s bare feet are mentioned quite a bit. He himself refers to the pebbles under his feet (Mafumu also caught his foot on a stone which leads to an uproar), plus the attention that the footprints are given in the cave when it is thought that they might be those of Beowald’s bare feet.

Also Beowald is found by means of a crooked tree. And the payment that Mafumu’s uncle receives is hidden under a tree by Ranni, the same place where the children had first met Mafumu.

Jack is also quite rude to Beowald at one point, making an off-putting remark, recalling the incident where he was angry at Mafumu’s uncle for hitting Mafumu.

Beowald is unusually fearful of the robbers, recalling Mafunu and his uncle’s fear of the Mountain Folk.

We even have a repeat of the dyeing of body parts. The Secret Forest robbers dyed their wolf tail red as the Mountain Folk did their hair.

The flute that Beowald plays his beautiful music on, and which evokes the surrounding mountainside, is the fruits and flowers that Mafumu collects for the children from the forest, and which they eat.

Both Beowald and Mafumu give gifts associated with the lips (“kisses” or “food”) - Beowald gives a flute to Paul, and Mafumu gives his charm of crocodile teeth, both flute and charm worn round the neck.


The circumstantial evidence for the name Killimooin being derived from that of Kilimanjaro is even stronger because the similar evidence for Kilimanjaro in Tanzania being the inspiration for the location of the Secret Mountain is quite strong, and we have shown that the idea for the Secret of Killimooin did come from the Secret Mountain, referring directly to (the substitute for) kilimanjaro.

Of course, the original idea for the robbers came from the Middle East, being the story of Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, a tale in The Arabian Nights (a surprisingly mature tale for children!). But the society of Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves was definitely not Stone Age. Those elements would have been inspired by somewhere else, and most likely Africa.

None of this excludes the possibility that the European setting for Killimooin could be the Carpathian Mountains in Romania.
Last edited by Liam on 28 Apr 2016, 15:53, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Rob Houghton
Posts: 16029
Joined: 26 Feb 2005, 22:38
Favourite book/series: Rubadub Mystery, Famous Five and The Find-Outers
Favourite character: Snubby, Uncle Robert, George, Fatty
Location: Kings Norton, Birmingham

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Rob Houghton »

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

not convinced!! Nice idea but this could be said of any two consecutive books!
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



Society Member
User avatar
Daisy
Posts: 16632
Joined: 28 Oct 2006, 22:49
Favourite book/series: Find-Outers, Adventure series.
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Daisy »

I find some of your conclusions, Liam, somewhat far-fetched.
'Tis loving and giving that makes life worth living.

Society Member
timv
Posts: 928
Joined: 31 Jul 2015, 10:06

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by timv »

It's very interesting to hear that Enid's second husband Kenneth Darrell Waters destroyed most of Enid's personal 'archive'; evidently the concept of 'spin' for an author's image was already alive then! NB: the same fate befell Jane Austen's letters at the hands of her sister Cassandra.

The idea of the name of Kilimanjaro as an inspiration for 'Killimooin' is certainly possible in my opinion; I have an idea that Enid sometimes dropped 'hints' in her names as to relevant ideas she had picked up and then adapted, particularly in place-names. Possibly 'Malvern Hills' for the 'Merran Hills' in Five Go Off In A Caravan?' But at other times she appears to have made up names entirely at random, and I seem to recall she once said she picked perosnal names out of a telephone directory. I assume that 'Beowald' comes from the well-known Dark Ages Anglo-Saxon literary epic 'Beowulf , if anywhere - this also features sinister attacks on the 'locals', in this case the king of Denmark and his warriors, by seemingly unreachable 'aliens' (in thic case, monsters) from a subterranean location (a lake). An 'outsider' like the Arnold children - in this case a visiitng hero prince- has to d hunt the attackers down. 'Wald' is German for 'wood/forest' , so this is appropriate for a book on the Secret Forest - and there were medieval German settlers in Rumania West of the Carpathians, brought in to build castles to keep raiding Mongols out, who would have been mentioned in Queen Marie's book and articles as she owned estates there.
' 'Tooku' seems entirely made-up, but the name sounds a bit Finnish; I have come across 'Yamen' before, as a Chinese word for a house or homestead. In Arthur Ransome's children's novel 'Missee Lee' (1941) AR has the Swallows and Amazons captured on a sailing voyage off China by the eponymous female pirate chief, whose house / headquarters on a secret island is referred to by her officers and servants as the 'yamen'.
Society Member
User avatar
Rob Houghton
Posts: 16029
Joined: 26 Feb 2005, 22:38
Favourite book/series: Rubadub Mystery, Famous Five and The Find-Outers
Favourite character: Snubby, Uncle Robert, George, Fatty
Location: Kings Norton, Birmingham

Re: Readathon - Secret Mountain and Secret of Killimooin

Post by Rob Houghton »

timv wrote:It's very interesting to hear that Enid's second husband Kenneth Darrell Waters destroyed most of Enid's personal 'archive'; evidently the concept of 'spin' for an author's image was already alive then! NB: the same fate befell Jane Austen's letters at the hands of her sister Cassandra.
Except I don't believe this was the case, as most of Enid's personal archive still survives. :?
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



Society Member
Post Reply