Five Get into Trouble Talking Points

[Maggie Knows]

I have just commenced on the latest in the series. Trouble is generally very highly rated and often appears in lists of Top 3 or Top 5 favourites in the series.

But there are a few problems even very early on: there on page 2 of my edition it's stated that the Five's cousinship derives from the fact that Aunt Fanny and Julian's mother are sisters, yet on the very first page of Treasure island it is said that Quentin and Julian's father are brothers: can both statements be true ? possibly, but it seems pretty unlikely...

I like the way that the possibility of a moon-lit bicycle ride is flagged up in several places in the early chapters, and it always makes me smile when Julian tells his Uncle that the bicycles "just happen to be in first-class working order": a line subsequently lifted straight into the script for Comic Strip spoof...

It also strikes me as funny that in the fifth book the possibility of a cycling tour or a hiking tour is dismissed by the Five, but within 5 more books both modes of travel have been deployed.

A final initial impression: I'd have liked a longer lead-in to the adventure: in Caravan they have a joyous 4-5 days on the road before they hook up with the circus; something like that would have been welcomed here too: I think they meet Richard a little too soon...

[Poppy]

It's interesting to hear of your thoughts on the book, Maggie. As one of my favourite Blyton books, I have read this book several times and never really noticed these errors you have mentioned. I will check up in my edition about Aunt Fanny being the children's mothers sister and let you know later. You mentioned how the adventure kicks off almost immediately in this book. Personally, I am always glad of this; it means no "hanging around" waiting for something to happen, you're hooked from page no:1. Funnily enough, concerning your comment about Richard; the "extra character" of this book, when I began reading this book for the very first time, I couldn't stand Richard so much that I put the book away for the time being! I ended up reading it last and it became my very favourite book of the series. Again, I think it was good for him to be introduced from the start so we could see his change in maturity and decency more vividly. By the end of the book, I was quite fond of Richard and wished he was involved in other FF sequels as some of he others are. He reminded me a bit of Prince Paul from the Secret Series. The moon-lit cycling aspect of the book always thrilled me and still does when I read the book. I love the Knight front cover of this book, because of this; it captures my own imagination of the scene perfectly. I suppose the five liked to try different things (on your comment of the five turning down a cycling tour in many other of the sequels.) I'm sure they desribe somehwere how you have to have a certain temperature for cycling, otherwise it is not fun at all! They were also always conscious of the bore of mending punctures! This also might have been a tactful way of dismissing certain holiday ideas to get a good variety of subjects.

[Julie2owlsdene]

I've just fetched out my copy of this book, and in my edition, Maggie, hardback 1964, it doesn't say anything about cousinship, as stated at the begining of your posting. In my copy it says - "Well, Fanny dear - how can I possibly be expected to remember exactly when the chidren's holidays come, and if they are going to be here with us, or with your sister?

I just took that that Fanny had a sister and nothing more really. It doesn't say anything about her sister being Julian's mother in my copy! So I guess that maybe Enid wanted Fanny to have a sister. Also, if there is this mix up, with which you are indicating, Maggie, it's probably because of the year span between Treasure and Trouble. It's very hard to remember exactly what you've written in one book and then 6 years later when you begin another.

This is one of my favourite books, and I like the way Richard comes straight into the story, as the whole story is really for me, based around himself and Owl's Dene, and Dick being captured instead of Richard. I never tire of reading this book at all.

[Moonraker]

There's nothing in my first edition as you recall, Maggie.

[Daisy]

I've just fetched out my copy of this book, and in my edition, Maggie, hardback 1964, it doesn't say anything about cousinship, as stated at the begining of your posting. In my copy it says - "Well, Fanny dear - how can I possibly be expected to remember exactly when the chidren's holidays come, and if they are going to be here with us, or with your sister?

When I first read this I understood it to be as Maggie suggests - that Fanny and Julian's mother were sisters which I thought was probably one of those "bloopers" we come across sometimes. However I do know someone who is married to a twin who's brother is married to her sister. So it can and does happen.

[Carlotta King]

And, as we know from Sooty, Mrs Lenoir's first husband and second husband were cousins!

[Little Miss Muffet]

It also strikes me as funny that in the fifth book the possibility of a cycling tour or a hiking tour is dismissed by the Five, but within 5 more books both modes of travel have been deployed

I haven't read Trouble but I just finished Caravan and in it one of the children says its too hot for a bycyling or walking tour. Maybe Trouble is set in cooler season, and not in the peak of summer. But in Caravan Julian also adds that Anne can't keep up and there is the chance of getting punctures. Maybe she grew stronger afterwards and they learned how to fix puncture.

[Poppy]

Judging by Dick's speedy puncture repair at the beginning of Five Go Down to Sea, the five knew plenty of top tips on how to mend a puncture very quickly! It takes us about an hour to mend a puncture in our house!

[Katharine]

I hadn't read this book for quite a while, but read the first chapter to my daughter at the weekend. I was going to comment on the mention that the children's mother is Aunt Fanny's sister. To me that means that the two mothers are sisters. I know this subject has been discussed at length elsewhere, but the words leapt out of the page at me. Although I never noticed them when I first read the book as a child.

I really enjoyed the first chapter, and am looking forward to reading the rest.

One other anomaly struck me though. George says that she'd be quite happy to wash up if the children were left alone while her parents go to the lecture. Surely that just doesn't fit in with her character?

[Maggie Knows]

There's nothing in my first edition as you recall, Maggie.

Oh, are you saying the following sentence uttered by Uncle Quentin isn't found in the 1st edition ? That would be interesting...

"Well, Fanny dear - how can I possibly be expected to remember exactly when the children's holidays come, and if they are going to be here with us, or with your sister?

Just to be clear, I am interpreting that sentence as indicating the Five are cousins because Fanny and Julian-Dick-Anne's mother are sisters. Actually, I can't see how else it can possibly be interpreted TBH, unless there is some mysterious Aunt of George's that she and her cousins are regularly billeted upon in holidays that Mrs Blyton never found time to write about...

[Carlotta King]

It would be quite plausible for Julian's dad to have met Julian's mum, and for her to then have introduced him to her sister (Fanny), and then perhaps Quentin came to visit his brother and met Fanny there, or maybe even Julian's dad thought that Fanny might be good for Quentin and arranged to introduce them?

[Katharine]

I think my book is a 1st edition, as it says 'First printed October 1949' inside (no D/W sadly). It says the same words as Maggie has pointed out. It's not impossible that 2 brothers married 2 sisters, in fact to me that is more likely than the children being sent to stay with a sister of Fanny that isn't mentioned elsewhere. The only thing that makes the relationship unlikely is that if Kirrin Island belonged to Aunt Fanny, then surely it belonged to Julian's mother too?

As has been said before, it's one of those 'bloopers' that slipped through the net.

[Fiona1986]

In my copy it says - "Well, Fanny dear - how can I possibly be expected to remember exactly when the children's holidays come, and if they are going to be here with us, or with your sister?

I just took that that Fanny had a sister and nothing more really. It doesn't say anything about her sister being Julian's mother in my copy!

Why would Julian, Dick and Anne stay with Fanny's sister though? Unless that sister was their mother! If he was talking about George it would be possible Fanny had a sister we've otherwise never heard of.

[Poppy]

I'm lost...

[Dick Kirrin]

Acutally I know cases when two brothers married two sisters, so that isn't unheard of. And in the past, it actually happened quite often.
As for the children going to an aunt which is just that - an aunt and no mother, well even that has been known to happen. Remember Snubby for a moment. He is shipped from Aunt to Uncle during the school holidays as his parents are dead there is no other way. And why would an unmarried or childless aunt not want her niece and nephews around, so no mystery there...
The only reason that goes against it is that such a useful person isn't ever mentioned later in the series, not has she made an appearance before.

The story itself is quite nice and thrilling, too. I like the way Richard changes and for once Ju is utterly justified to give someone a piece of mind.

However, I've always wondered how the villians could expect to get away with their crime. The children know all about them, right down to the names..