Five Get into Trouble Talking Points

[Dick Kirrin]

I also like the two baddies who are so different in their way. Perton, cool, brainy, nasty and Rooky a brutal bully.

Richard just enters before things can get too cosy and he adds a bit to the story. His change is truly remarkable, and of course I am happy to see that Ju is telling off someone else for a change.. old Dick is happy to be spared.

[Maggie Knows]

The pace of this story is really quite amazing !

The penny has only just dropped with me that Anne's character is quite important to the plot: she has to be timid and frightened to stay quiet while Dick is getting kidnapped: this couldn't have happened if Julian or George had been left to watch Dick repair the puncture, as they would have intervened to protect Dick from his assailants, but without an observer the remaining Five wouldn't know about Owl's Dene and where to look for Dick.

The moonlit ride is thrilling, and then we have the scene when the crew observe KMF109 picking up the fugitive on the lonely lane: all really exciting stuff.

I agree that Rooky is a very frightening villain, impulsive and dangerous. Perton is cleverer and calculating, but don't forget the violent and nasty Hunchy: this is a truly nasty bunch of villains, the scariest that the Five ever encountered. Real underworld characters, you could imagine them killing Dick rather than releasing him when they realised he wasn't the boy they wanted....

[Julie2owlsdene]

Some good points, Maggie. I agree about Anne, being vital to the plot, up in the tree, quietly observing. If she would have been on the ground, then she would have been taken as well to Owl's Dene, but no one knew she was up in the tree, and Dick wouldn't have given her away either.

Rooky was a dangerous person, and poor Aggie had to live under the same roof as these villians and almost be a slave to them!

[Lenoir]

It’s one of my favourites. The excitement grows steadily. Owl’s Dene is a sinister place with dangerous men and secrets. The moonlight ride in which they witness the dumping of the things in the well, and Julian drops a hardboiled egg, is something I always enjoy when I read the book.

[Maggie Knows]

I finished it last night. The action is non-stop really; I really like Julian's night-time prowl around the house, and the scene where they think they are being released only for the gates to close before they can get to them (if only they hadn't stopped to give Aggie their money... )

The most interesting sequence is when Richard hides in the boot and then gets chased through the town by Perton. This is notable because there aren't many scenes in the Five series that take place in urban settings - the main exception I can think of is in Plenty of Fun when they go hunting for George. (I except Smugglers Top because I interpret Castaway as a village rather than a town, but others may take a different view...)

I didn't like Trouble too much when I was a kid as I found the story a bit scary and creepy, but now these are the qualities that makes it stand out from most of the other entries in the series.

Onwards now to Book 9...

[Maggie Knows]

Oh, I forgot to mention another link between Trouble and the TV spoof - Comic Strip or whatever it was called.

I hadn't twigged until now that Aggie was the source of the "Right down nice you are" phrase that Robbie Coltrane's character(s) use a few times in the TV show...

[Dick Kirrin]

Reading "Ship of Adventure" while enjoying your comments on here, I happened to notice that EB obviously used the same idea twice - in a certain way.

She has Jack propose a cycling holiday, too. An idea that Aunt Allie dismisses off hand as she will not permit them to get mixed up in any more adventures as they inevitably would if they were to go off on their own. So the Five, with eight adventures behind them are allowed to do something the Four, with just four or five adventures on their record are not allowed to do. Funny, isn't it?
Well, of course, old Dick tells you that WE, The Five, were more responsible and able to look after ourselves...
Seriously, though, EB uses the same idea in two books that appeared in the same year, and manages to make two thrilling adventure stories of it. One time, by letting the children go ahead with it and one time by a grown-up interfering and whisking them off on a cruise.

[pete9012S]

Anne was sitting absolutely petrified up in the tree. She couldn't move or speak. She tried to call out to poor Dick, but her tongue wouldn't say a word. She had to sit there and hear her brother being dragged away by two strange ruffians.

I wondered how realistic Anne's inability to come to Dick's aid even vocally was?
Obviously essential to the plot that Dick was captured, but this was certainly not Anne's first adventure.
She also loved her brother. Any other examples of her being tongue-tied at essential moments?

Julian took the food which was done up carelessly in old brown paper. 'Thanks,' he said. 'How much?'
'Five pounds,' said the old man, surprisingly.
'Don't be silly,' said Julian. He looked quickly at the food. 'I'll give you twenty-five pence for it, and that's more than it's worth. There's hardly any ham.'

Five pounds for sub-standard farm grub. Even in my youth in the early 1970's I thought it was an extortionate amount.
My edition is from the early 1950's so I don't know if/how this amount has changed over time?

Also, in my book, I think Julian offers five shillings and says that that was more than fair.
As above later editions say twenty-five pence.
Surely these amounts must have been updated?

Timmy the prescient wonder dog:

This book seems full of the wisdom and wonder that is Tim. He seems all-wise and all-knowing on every occasion.

When Richard suddenly turns up again after deceiving the Five that he was going to stay at his Aunty's house we read:

'Richard! What's up?' cried Julian. Richard ran to him and flung himself against him. Timmy did not go to him..

Also:

They followed Timmy back to the woods. They were glad they had him, because otherwise they might have missed the way. But Timmy knew it. Once he had been along a certain route Timmy always knew it again.

And:

Timmy stood near her, licking her hand all the time. That was very comforting indeed! Timmy always knew when anyone was in trouble. Anne felt very much better when she had Julian's arm round her, and Timmy's tongue licking her!

This is just a minor selection. Tim really is a major character in this book with almost supernatural attributes.

[Jack400]

I imagine that it is possible/ perfectly credible that Anne could be "frozen" with fear. Timmy on the other hand was presented as having super human (dog) properties.. I swallowed it as a child because I wanted to... I wanted to have a dog/ convince my parents that it would be a great asset. I was unsuccessful...I believe because they'd owned one (or more) before

[Jack400]

I believe that it is possible to call out but not make a sound. If I'm ever present in a kidnapping I'll let you know

[pete9012S]

Thanks, Jack. It looks like Anne was quite literally petrified!

[Debbie]

She's also up a tree, and I suspect both Dick and the villains are making quite a lot of noise. She might well have frozen, but also she might have called out, but not loud enough to be heard. I don't find that unbelievable.

I know when I looked out of the window in the middle of the night and realised that the noise was someone breaking in downstairs it didn't even occur to me to shout out or call the police. I woke my husband up, who looked at me with bleary eyes and said "why aren't you calling the police then?" Which seemed obvious once he'd said it, but didn't occur to me until that point.

I think with the five it's said more than once that they're allowed to do things because of Timmy. Kiki isn't quite as good a protector

[Jack400]

Yes, Debbie, you 're correct , the FF were allowed to go off on their own because of Timmy. Great plot device but ,I always thought, a convenient reason to suspend reality for a story...

[Katharine]

For some reason, I don't remember this book particularly well, even though it was one of the first that I read.

I'm slowly having a FF re-read, mixing them in with other books. Maybe once I've finished the end of the series I need to go back and have another look at this one.

[dsr]

to go back to the original post from 8 years ago, re. the internal logic of the cousinship.

My grandmother Edith Marsden married James Phillips. James' sister Annie Phillips married Edith's brother Tom Marsden. That's how you can be double first cousins.

Similarly, Quentin Kirren may have married Fanny Barnard while John Kirren married Jane Barnard. (Barnard, being from memory, the childrens' name in book 1!)

Let's take it a step further. Quentin Kirren married Fanny Edwards, William Barnard married Jane Edwards. They had three children and then William Barnard died, while Anne was still a baby. Some time later, Jane Barnard nee Edwards married Quentin's brother John Kirren, and sometime after Treasure Island but before Trouble, John Kirren formally adopted the children and they changed their names.

Either that, or Enid made a blooper!