Sexist and racist elements?

[Carlotta King]

1980s singer Billy Idol liked his women to wear high heels. Some guys just have a positive view of women in high heels.

Then the guy should try and wear them themselves!!!

My best friend put my high heels on one night when we were out and he couldn't even stand up in them, I had to take them off him before he fell over and broke them!
I think he said "how do you walk in these?!"

[Moonraker]

I always wore heels to give myself height...these days sadly I can't wear the height I used to!

I would imagine so. It must be very difficult to walk on 36 inch heels.

As for Court shoes, it is a term Julie often uses. However, according to Debenham's, many have high heels.

[Rob Houghton]

I think, regards wearing heels in the workplace, it all depends. I know people will disagree with me here, and I'm certainly not suggesting they were right to dismiss someone for not wearing heels - that's ridiculous - but I can sort of understand why they wanted heels in a job that involved greeting the public. I believe it was on a reception desk?

I don't agree that heels should be a woman's only option, but I do think they look smart, and it must have been a long standing rule to encourage the up keeping of standards at this particular workplace - probably along with certain hairstyles, men in suits or a tie, etc. So I can understand it from that point of view - rather like children wearing uniforms - it was probably brought in to prevent peoples dress codes slipping - if people could just wear what they wanted, receptionists would soon be wearing scruffy trainers, Mohawk hairstyles, multiple face piercings and ripped jeans...

On the other hand, they should alter their outdated rules to allow women to wear flat shoes, as long as they look smart. After all, men can look smart in flat shoes, so why can't women? I don't think its particularly sexist as such, just outdated and should be altered.

Having been in amateur musicals for some years I've seen a few men attempting to wear heels for various parts...and they always stumble and fall and ask however women walk in them! Of course, its also well known these days that high heels are very bad for a persons entire posture, leading to long term damage of the ankles, feet, legs and back, and even the shoulders, as its unnatural to always walk on tiptoe.

My mom always called them 'court shoes' but I don't know what the true definition of a court shoe is!

[Carlotta King]

I think, regards wearing heels in the workplace, it all depends. I know people will disagree with me here, and I'm certainly not suggesting they were right to dismiss someone for not wearing heels - that's ridiculous - but I can sort of understand why they wanted heels in a job that involved greeting the public. I believe it was on a reception desk?

I don't agree that heels should be a woman's only option, but I do think they look smart, and it must have been a long standing rule to encourage the up keeping of standards at this particular workplace - probably along with certain hairstyles, men in suits or a tie, etc. So I can understand it from that point of view - rather like children wearing uniforms - it was probably brought in to prevent peoples dress codes slipping - if people could just wear what they wanted, receptionists would soon be wearing scruffy trainers, Mohawk hairstyles, multiple face piercings and ripped jeans...

On the other hand, they should alter their outdated rules to allow women to wear flat shoes, as long as they look smart. After all, men can look smart in flat shoes, so why can't women? I don't think its particularly sexist as such, just outdated and should be altered.

Completely agree with you, this was exactly what I was trying to get across in my post.
I totally understand why they would want heels as they look smart, esp in places like offices, banks etc, but as long as the flat shoes are smart too then it shouldn't be a problem.
As you say, other styles always start to creep in, when the rule allows 'flats' some women will think its OK to wear casual things, which wouldn't look smart at all.

[Fiona1986]

I don't see an issue with the rules being 'smart shoes' whether flat or heels. That's hardly a call to a free-for-all with ripped jeans and so on. The point is, smart or not, high heels are something doctors recommend women do not wear. It's fine if it's a woman's choice but no company should be allowed to dictate she wears something that can cause pain and potential damage or injury. I would even go as far as to suggest it is a health and safety issue if she is expected to do a lot of walking in them - the potential for slips and trips is much higher in heels.

As for courts, that is a word that is actually used all the time in my work. We do sell shoes after all . We have an area specifically for courts in the shoe department and it covers pretty much all closed toe heels with an open front of any height. Wedges would usually be in the wedges section, though, even if they had a closed toe. Also known as pumps in America.

[Rob Houghton]

I wasn't imagining a 'free for all' - but it could lead to a slow deterioration of standards if there were no limits at all.

I agree totally that heels are bad for posture and for health. I certainly wouldn't want to wear them for an eight hour shift! It should never be compulsory. We can hardly complain about women wearing veils etc when we dictate that women should wear heels!

I see that the company in question has now altered their policy to include the wearing of smart flats as acceptable - which is as it should be.

[Courtenay]

Here's the link to the government petition, for anyone else who wants to sign it: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/129823" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They're not too far short of the 100,000 signatures needed for it to be considered for a debate in Parliament!

[Katharine]

Thanks Courtenay, I saw it was up to about 86,000 on This Morning. There was a debate on there, which was interesting. There were several references to high heels being the same as having to wear a tie. I've never heard of a man suffering bunions and back ache from wearing a tie.

I'm glad to see that the company has backed down, or at least clarified the shoe policy. I certainly wouldn't expect to see a receptionist (male or female) wearing trainers or flip flops, but really couldn't understand the principal that somehow a low/flat heel was less smart than high heels.

[Rob Houghton]

I personally hate the new trend for news readers/presenters not wearing ties - I think it looks scruffy - and the same would go for reception desk jobs, in my opinion - as a tie can be seen above the counter - but high heels can't be seen behind a reception desk and make no difference to the perceptions of customers - so I'm pleased they have now changed their shoe policy.

I've always found perceptions about clothes to be intriguing - if a man wears a suit, he is generally treated with more respect by shop workers etc than if he wears just jeans and t shirt - I used to notice this when I wore a suit more often in the early 2000's - a sad reflection of our society when people are judged by the clothes (and footwear!) they have on.

[Katharine]

That's an interesting comment Rob. I would hope I would treat everyone with the same amount of respect, regardless of what they were wearing, however I must admit that if I went to see someone in an official capacity, ie, bank manager, solicitor etc. I would feel more confident that they knew what they were talking about if they were wearing something like a suit than if they were wearing jeans and a t-shirt. Stupid I know, as it should be their qualifications/experience that are important.

[Fiona1986]

Ta for the link Courtenay. I have signed now, and it is at 99 thousand 100 and something already.

[Katharine]

I wasn't sure if this was the best thread to post in, so am happy if someone wants to move it elsewhere.

Enid Blyton has come under a lot of criticism over the years as being sexist and racist, and maybe viewed with modern eyes some of it could be viewed that way, however, as has I think been discussed before, many modern critics are taking her writing out of the context of the time it was written.

I've been watching the early episodes of the Up series. Out of 14 children selected to follow, 4 were girls, the others (obviously) were boys. I don't think when I first started watching the series (either from 28 or 35), that it crossed my mind that it wasn't a 50/50 split, and even when I did 'twig' in the last couple of series I didn't think over much on it. However I've just seen an interview with the producer of the show, and he said that it has been commented on widely as not being a fair split, but that back in 1963 when the first show was made, it never crossed anyone's mind to make it an equal number of girls and boys. I suspect the reasoning was that girls generally wouldn't have careers to follow up on. Indeed in the '21' episode, one of the girls from the working class background relates how a (male) teacher at school suggested that all girls wanted to do was to "leave school, get married and push a pram".

If that was the attitude of film producers and teachers in the 1960's/70's, then surely it's not surprising that Enid Blyton's books often reflected an attitude where girls didn't feature as strongly as boys, or were cast in more domestic roles.

As for the racist element, the first episode of Up, showed some children (aged 7) asked what they thought of 'coloured' people - to which one of them replied most emphatically, that they'd never met one and didn't wish to! In the '21' episode, another participant uses the phrase "working like Blacks". A phrase which I'm sure that as an educated adult he wouldn't dream of using now.

I do wish Enid Blyton had lived a few decades more so that she could have shown that she was capable of understanding changing values - I feel sure that she would have been able to produce more books that would have moved with the times. She'd already done so in a smaller way with regard to mentioning a television in Five on Kirrin Island Again, and a portable radio in Five Go Billycock Hill whereas in very early books such as Silver and Gold she writes poems about people listening to the radio via individual headphones - something that seems to have come full circle.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Interesting, Katharine. I agree that Enid Blyton was perfectly capable of understanding changing values.