Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

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Katharine
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Katharine »

Thanks for listing all the changes Irene.

Although I prefer text to be left as it is, I can see the reasoning behind some of the changes, such as not describing Boysie's face as ugly, however I simply can't understand the logic for most of them.

Why stop Goon hitting Buster - surely that could stay to illustrate what a nasty person he was> It's not glorifying hitting an animal or suggesting in any way that it is acceptable.

Why can't Fatty's cheeks be described as fat when he puts in the cheek pads - surely that was the whole point of him wearing them? If the censors are that worried about offending people, then surely his name should be changed?

Finally, what on earth is wrong with having the dinner gong being sounded? I've never lived in a house where a gong has sounded for a meal, and I don't know any friends or family who do/have either, but that doesn't mean to say I don't want to read about such a lifestyle. My neighbour has a little hand bell they ring to call people in from the garden, so some people nowadays still prefer not to yell out that it's meal time.

If they really want to update the books, then maybe the children would simply wait for a text from their mother to tell them lunch is ready. Oh no, that's not PC - it should either be their 'stay at home parent', or their house-husband father, because their mother is breaking glass ceilings somewhere. Or maybe even more realistic would be for the children to either be in a holiday club because their parent(s) are at work, or they are old enough to fend for themselves, in which case they would just be popping home to heat something up in the microwave? :roll:
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Anita Bensoussane
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It's interesting to hear about the revisions, Irene, however idiosyncratic they may be!

I agree that Goon's treatment of Buster shouldn't have been toned down, Katharine, and that a lot of the other changes are unnecessary too. When editors remove details like "Master Frederick" and take out (or downplay) mentions of smoking, they're depriving young readers of the opportunity to absorb information about social class and attitudes to health in days gone by. As for cutting out or altering words like "queer", that prevents children learning about the way language changes over time.
pete9012S wrote:You've got me wondering what changes in the text if any took place in the edition I grew up with pictured below:

Image
1973 Dragon, illustrations by Mary Gernat, cover by Paul Wright
I grew up with that edition too, Pete, and it's still the only copy I own. I'm hoping it has the original text, though I can't be certain!
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Irene Malory Towers
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

The modern version of the Pantomime Cat I have is the latest, 2019. No illustrations inside and a horrible cover on the outside, in my opinion,
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Irene Malory Towers
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

Just read your post Katharine about the texts sent to children for lunch and that made me laugh. In this home schooling time I have been sending texts to my son who is only upstairs in his bedroom. He is in his GCSE year and gets online lessons from 830 am to 3 pm and we have received warning emails from the school saying we are not allowed to be in the room when he is online. So I send him text messages - eg your egg is ready for lunch, or sandwiches ready for lunch as he only has half an hour or sometimes less to gobble his lunch and then back to lessons.
I should qualify one of the differences - the fat one - in the new version fat is mentioned for Fatty's fat face when he puffs out his face with the cheek pads to annoy Mr Goon but not as much as in the 2nd edition, Sometimes they use cheeky instead. Also forgot that in the 2nd edition Mr Goon called either Fatty or Pippin Toad but that had been removed in the current version. So many changes.
You'll never wear your own brains out, Mr. Goon - you don't use them enough !
Katharine
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Katharine »

I have mixed feelings about the removal of smoking from the texts.

On the one hand, I do think that it is is important not to promote it to children - I'm currently reading The Island of Adventure, and there are several references to Bill smoking, which don't really seem to have any bearing on the plot. On the other hand, the books were written in a time when attitudes were very different, and as I've said before, to make a book set in the past fit for the modern world often doesn't work, because so much is different these days. Personally I would think it unlikely that a child would be encouraged to smoke just because a few characters in an Enid Blyton book enjoy a cigarette or two, I should imagine family attitudes/peer pressure far more likely to influence a decision.

If all books now have to be written in a way that encourage children to adopt a healthy life style, then presumably any references to food mostly include 5 portions of fruit and vegetables, lean cuts of unprocessed meat or plant based alternatives, virtually nothing with sugar, plenty of plain water etc etc.?

Irene - I'm completely stumped at the removal of the word 'toad'. Is it offensive to amphibians, slang for something obscene that I don't know about??? :roll:
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

I don't think toad itself is insulting and I am sure that in new versions of The Mystery of the Vanished Prince Goon uses it on Fatty. I just think that in the new versions they try and tone Goon down - from preventing him whacking Buster and reducing the number of expletives that he uses.

It is a difficult issue and also subjective - what to remove and what not to. I noticed that in the Island of Adventure (I have a very old edition) that not only are there references to JoJo being black - there are many references as though that was an important part and unfortunately as he is arguably the worst baddie or certainly one of the worst it does subconsciously links black skin to bad. I think there is even one description of black Jo Jo with the whites of his eyes rolling - or something like that. While on the whole I think they should keep to the original text if I were black I would be upset. As it is I feel uncomfortable that the colour of his skin is repeated so often. Include it once in the initial appearance of JoJo and that should sufficient.

But there again - you do have take it as that was a sign of the times. And certainly in the Golden Age of Detective stories many of the authors like Agatha Christie, R Freeman and I am sure plenty of others are much worse in language when it comes to non white non heterosexuals ! My brother just finished an article on an Agatha Christie book called The Hollow and how she described a Jewish lady is quite frankly insulting. You would not and should not get away with that now.

I have to say though that I do disagree with you on the smoking - although I am not a smoker myself. Smoking unfortunately is very much part of our lives and the fact the Island of Adventure and the other Adventure books mention Bill smoking doesn't bother me. That was part of him. Perhaps changing what Fatty said to I am not going to smoke at all from I am going to wait until 21 is commendable though as he hadn't started yet
You'll never wear your own brains out, Mr. Goon - you don't use them enough !
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It's a strange decision to tone Goon down, making him less violent and less rude. The Find-Outers frequently lead him a merry dance and their behaviour is questionable at times - but their actions are even more questionable if Goon is not such an odious character in the revised text (assuming the children still lay false clues, goad him, etc.)
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Irene Malory Towers
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Irene Malory Towers »

Yes I agree it is a strange decision to tone Goon down - maybe that is just my interpretation. Perhaps the editors just thought that hitting Buster with the poker was one step too far. Of course Goon nearly had him killed in the Mystery of Holly Lane but that was a more major incident so it could not have been removed whereas the poker incident was quite easily removed. The children are quite mean to him in their own way but I don't feel sorry for Goon either. He was a bully especially with Ern. I wonder whether EB had based him on a real life character, or was it just a literary ploy - as being such a mean, stupid and lazy policeman gave her carte blanche for a riot of jokes. One of the reasons I love the FFO's is because the humour is prevalent in most of that series. and apart from Snubby's antics in the Barney mysteries, there isn't nearly as much humour in any of her other books. Without Goon there would not the scope for that richly comic element and so the books would be much poorer for it. So in conclusion we should be grateful for the existence of Goon !
You'll never wear your own brains out, Mr. Goon - you don't use them enough !
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Wolfgang »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:It's a strange decision to tone Goon down, making him less violent and less rude. The Find-Outers frequently lead him a merry dance and their behaviour is questionable at times - but their actions are even more questionable if Goon is not such an odious character in the revised text (assuming the children still lay false clues, goad him, etc.)
Maybe the revisors think that official people have to be respected and therefore they mustn't behave cruel and rude. After all such behaviour doesn't encourage respect. And children could think that all policemen behave that way.
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Anita Bensoussane
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

You may be right, Wolfgang, though Goon is clearly a comic character (and is compared unfavourably with other members of the force like Inspector Jenks and P.C. Pippin) so it's not likely that readers would take him for a typical policeman.
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by S-Dog2001 »

The only Find-Outers books I have ever owned are published from 2003-2010, and it is interesting to note that some of the changes mentioned in this form had not occured in these editions - e.g. Fatty's cheeks are still described as fat, and Goon repeatedly calls Fatty a toad. But other changes have obviously already taken place - as Goon does not actually hit Buster with the poker (I actually think it's quite funny how Fatty twists the poker out of Goon's hand so I don't really mind them changing this part.)
I suppose, never having read any older editions than 2003, changes made before then would seem normal to me. However, I cannot imagine Mr Goon refraining to use his favourite term of 'toad' to describe Fatty! And I fear that in future editions, they might even go as far as changing Fatty's name - because it isn't politically correct. How wrong that would feel... :roll:
Oh, and also, because I grew up reading these books, I always had it in my mind that being called 'Fatty' was a compliment rather than an insult - due to Fatty having first class brains, and being the hero of the series! :lol:
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"I’ve got that feeling again,” she said earnestly. “You know – that something is wrong with Fatty.”
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Welcome to the forums, S-Dog! I'd feel honoured to be called "Fatty" too! :D
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by S-Dog2001 »

Thanks for the welcome, Anita!
Bets sat down suddenly because her knees began shaking.
"I’ve got that feeling again,” she said earnestly. “You know – that something is wrong with Fatty.”
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Bertie »

Interesting debate to read through.
I'm not going to comment on the PC aspects / revised editions - I find it depressing just how much that's the main topic of most Enid Blyton references elsewhere nowadays, so I'm delighted to have found this place that discusses so much of the positives about her wonderful work.
So, as regards the books quality, I actually think it's a very good one and one of the top 4 or 5 of the series. I like the fact that they do so much detective work, and that they've got so many suspects / alibis to work through. I get the negative points about the ending, but I've no problem with it myself. As a kid, I loved it when Bets made her comment and Fatty went wild. And then the dash to see the autographs, and Pippin phoning Inspector Jenks, and Inspector Jenks' attitude towards Goon. I really like how it ends.
I wish they hadn't tricked Pippin like they did - he'd given them no cause to, unlike Goon. But it just feels a continuation of the ideas from the previous book (Hidden House) when they plant false clues for Ern. And, again, they lead to a real mystery.
As an animal lover, I hate Goon hitting Buster with the poker. But that's part of his dislikeable character, and I'm always even more shocked / disturbed by the howls as Larkin thrashes Poppet, or Five Go Off In A Caravan when Barker is poisoned and Pongo hit badly with a stone, etc.
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Re: Mystery of the Pantomime Cat

Post by Jack400 »

I don't actually mind that Goon's poker missed Buster in the revised edition. I would like to suggest that if, for example, I tried to punch someone but they manage to block my attempt, it's pretty clear that I'm a violent person. I don't actually have to connect with someone's nose for the reader to get the point?
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