Famous Five Fluffs

[Moonraker]

Possibly because the illustrations showed her in jeans? I don't possess the paper back version so can't say so categorically.

Happily, neither do I.

[Gary Russell]

I presume the publishers (as usual!) thought Enid was 'wrong' to say 'skirt' and so altered it to 'clothing' -- although this alteration may have come from the Betty Maxey illustration days in the 1970's when George always wore jeans.

I strikes me as unlikely that publishers ever make changes based on an illustration as the illustrations would be done after the fact. BM or whoever would create their art based on the text they'd been given, not vice versa. I similarly doubt anyone thought Enid was "wrong" to say 'skirt' (skirts are hardly the devil's work!!), more likely the more generic 'clothing' was used so younger readers could create images in their own minds of what George was wearing rather than be guided in any specific direction; in the 60s and 70s, books were seen as teaching aides to help children use their imagination more than back in the 40s and 50s where everything was rather more definitive and children were told what to think.

[Rob Houghton]

Good points - I agree an illustrator would base their drawings on the text - I guess what I meant was that the words had been altered to 'clothing' in the days when Betty Maxey took over the job of illustrating, rather than her being responsible for the changes herself.

When I suggested that maybe publishers thought Enid was 'wrong' to say 'skirt' I was wondering whether some publisher decided it was 'wrong' from the point of view that usually George never wore a skirt, and so altered it thinking it was a mistake.

[pete9012S]

Has this been mentioned before:

Finniston Farm.Maxey edition...

I have spotted a mistake when George bets Dick his penknife about her taking up Junior's breakfast.
Then George talks to Julian as if it is his penknife - then when wins the bet collects the penknife off Dick...

Must check the older editions to see if they contain the same mistake...

Timmy made a most peculiar noise from under the table. ‘That sounded like a laugh to me,’ said Dick. ‘And I’m not surprised! I’d just like to see Junior’s face if you and Tim walked in on him with his breakfast!’
‘Do you bet me I won’t do it?’ demanded George, really on her mettle now.
‘Yes. I do bet you,’ said Dick at once. ‘I bet you my new pocket-knife you won’t!’
‘Taken!’ said George.

‘I say - do you think it’s all right to let George take up Junior’s breakfasts said Julian, after a pause. ‘George, don’t throw the tray at him or anything, will you?’
‘I might,’ said George, eating a boiled egg. ‘Anything to get your new pocket-knife from you!’
‘Well, don’t go too far in teasing Junior,’ said Julian warningly. ‘You don’t want to make the Henning family walk out and leave Mrs Philpot high and dry!’

George went into the kitchen. Dick and Julian were still there. ‘You’ve lost your bet, Dick,’ said George. ‘Pocket-knife, please. I not only took up his breakfast, and accidentally spilt hot coffee on him, but Timmy here pulled him out of bed and stood over him, growling. What a sight that was! Poor Junior doesn’t want his breakfast in bed any more! He’s coming down for it each morning.’
‘Good for you, George!’ said Dick, and slid his pocket-knife across the table. ‘You deserve to win. Now - sit down and finish your breakfast and mind - I’m not betting anything else for a long, long time!’

Do the older editions have the same mistake??

[KEVP]

Hmm.

Could the sentence "Anything to get your new pocket-knife from you!" actually be speaking to Dick, even though it is Julian speaking immediately before and afterwards? That's probably how I would direct the scene if I were directing it in a play or movie.

Thus, Julian speaks to George, George says "I might" to Julian, then turns to Dick and says the rest. Then Julian replies.

[pete9012S]

Although Enid makes this mistake in the text with George and the penknife challenge, it is impressive to realize that Dick would indeed have probably needed a new pocket-knife.

George wins the new penknife from him (not Julian) in Finniston Farm published 1960.

The last mention in the books of Dick receiving a new pocket-knife occurred way back in 1943's Five Go Adventuring Again - we can re-read Dick's excited exclamation:

'Who's this from? I say, who gave me this? Where's the label? Oh - from Mr. Roland. How decent of him! Look, Julian, a pocket-knife with three blades!'

So, as Enid gets so many of these lovely little details right,we can surely forgive the odd slip of concentration or confusion in the text.

[Machupicchu14]

Hmm.

Could the sentence "Anything to get your new pocket-knife from you!" actually be speaking to Dick, even though it is Julian speaking immediately before and afterwards? That's probably how I would direct the scene if I were directing it in a play or movie.

Thus, Julian speaks to George, George says "I might" to Julian, then turns to Dick and says the rest. Then Julian replies.

But books are different. We can't 'see' who George is talking to.

I just noticed it today Pete. It's strange, but the brain just basically puts the right sentence.

Although Enid makes this mistake in the text with George and the penknife challenge, it is impressive to realize that Dick would indeed have probably needed a new pocket-knife.

George wins his new penknife from him (not Julian) in Finniston Farm published 1960.

The last mention in the books of Dick receiving a new pocket-knife occurred way back in 1943's Five Go Adventuring Again - we can re-read Dick's excited exclamation:

'Who's this from? I say, who gave me this? Where's the label? Oh - from Mr. Roland. How decent of him! Look, Julian, a pocket-knife with three blades!'

Maybe he was given another pocket knife while in school, who knows!

[Moonraker]

Always called penknives when I was a lad.

[Eddie Muir]

Always called penknives when I was a lad too, Nigel.

[pete9012S]

We do get just one reference to pen-knife in the Famous Five books in their fifteenth adventure,Secret Trail:

Chapter Seventeen
FULL OF SURPRISES
‘Its locked - we can’t open the bag,’ said Julian, and shook it vigorously as if that might make it fly open and spill whatever contents it had!
‘We don’t know if it’s got anything of value in it or not,’ said Dick, in deep disappointment. ‘I mean - it might be some trick on that fellow Paul’s part - he might have taken the blue-prints, or whatever they were he hid, for himself, and left the bag just to trick the others.’
‘Can we cut it open?’ asked George.
‘No. I don’t think so. It’s made of really strong leather. We would need a special knife to cut through it - an ordinary pen-knife wouldn’t be any use,’ said Julian.

Thanks to Liam's excellent book,we can see that usually, Enid prefers 'pocket knife'.

Pocket-knife 01Tre8: 39/ pg110, 01Tre9: 44/ pg123, 02Adv8: 6/ pg100, 09Fal19: 4/ pg181, 10Hik18: 32/ pg194-195, 10Hik21: 22/ pg225, 11Won17: 20/ pg180, 20Sol13: 14/ pg140. Table knife 03Run7: 34/ pg78-79, 03Run9: 32/ pg102-103, 08Tro17: 1/ pg184, 09Fal17: 9/ pg163, 12Sea10: 49/ pg131, 17Fix7: 34/ pg75, 18Fin10: 17/ pg106, 21Tog8: 46/ pg92.

Martin, Liam. Dissecting the Magic of Enid Blyton's Famous Five Books (p. 129). Searidge. Kindle Edition.

Looking at the origins of the word pen-knife,I'm sure Eddie and Nigel aren't giving their ages away..

Pen-knife:

[Daisy]

Looking at the origins of the word pen-knife,I'm sure Eddie and Nigel aren't giving their ages away..

Pen-knife:

Good one Pete! Thanks for the derivation.. I had wondered about that.

[Courtenay]

I must have run across the word "penknife" reasonably often in the books I read as a child, as I remember puzzling over it and someone (probably Mum) having to point out to me that it was "pen-knife" and not "penk-nife"... I'd assumed it must have been an Enid Blyton word, but it was obviously somewhere else!

[Jack400]

Always called penknives when I was a lad too, Nigel.

I agree, sadly though today they are usually called "weapons".

[Liam]

We do get just one reference to pen-knife in the Famous Five books in their fifteenth adventure,Secret Trail:

Pete, I don’t have that reference in my book, because I used the 2000-2001 editions sold by Navrang, and there the penknife was changed to a (wrist) watch!

Also, the mistake you spotted was revised in the 2000-2001 editions:

‘I say - do you think it’s all right to let George take up Junior’s breakfasts said Julian, after a pause. ‘George, don’t throw the tray at him or anything, will you?’
‘I might,’ said George, eating a boiled egg. ‘Anything to get your new pocket-knife from you!’
‘Well, don’t go too far in teasing Junior,’ said Julian warningly. ‘You don’t want to make the Henning family walk out and leave Mrs Philpot high and dry!’

'I say -- do you think it's all right to let George take up Junior's breakfast?' said Dick, after a pause. 'George, don't throw the tray at him or anything, will you?'
'I might,' said George, eating a boiled egg. 'Anything to get your new watch from you!'
'Well, don't go too far teasing Junior,' said Julian warningly. 'You don't want to make the Henning family walk out and leave Mrs. Philpot high and dry!'

Hmm.
Could the sentence "Anything to get your new pocket-knife from you!" actually be speaking to Dick, even though it is Julian speaking immediately before and afterwards? That's probably how I would direct the scene if I were directing it in a play or movie

Thus, Julian speaks to George, George says "I might" to Julian, then turns to Dick and says the rest. Then Julian replies.

But books are different. We can't 'see' who George is talking to.

Logically, we should be able to “ 'see' who George is talking to”. In my editions that is Dick - he speaks last before George. However I don’t know if it is a revision:

There was cold ham for breakfast, boiled eggs and fruit. The two boys tucked in, and looked round reprovingly when the two girls came, with Timmy behind them, still sleepy-eyed. 'Overslept, I suppose?' said Dick, pretending to be shocked. 'Sit down, I'll pour you some coffee.'
'Where's Junior -- not down yet, I hope?' said George anxiously. 'I haven't forgotten my bet about taking up his breakfast!'
'I say -- do you think it's all right to let George take up Junior's breakfast?' said Dick, after a pause. 'George, don't throw the tray at him or anything, will you?'

[Anita Bensoussane]

We do get just one reference to pen-knife in the Famous Five books in their fifteenth adventure,Secret Trail:

...‘Can we cut it [the bag] open?’ asked George.
‘No. I don’t think so. It’s made of really strong leather. We would need a special knife to cut through it - an ordinary pen-knife wouldn’t be any use,’ said Julian.

Pete, I don’t have that reference in my book, because I used the 2000-2001 editions sold by Navrang, and there the penknife was changed to a (wrist) watch!

Julian says they'd need a special watch to cut through a leather bag