Five Go Off to Camp - thoughts, observations and mysteries

[TB3]

Hello all

The first Famous 5 book I ever read as a child was 'Five Go Off To Camp' - my mum thought it would be a good means of getting me to read more often by exploiting my love of steam engines - suffice to say it worked!

I was lucky enough to find the 1970s TV adaption of 'Five Go Off To Camp' in a car-boot-ale some years later, and thoroughly wore the tape out with multiple re-views. It's still a favorite today, and I'm 21 now!

The most notable guest star of the episode was of course the Spook Train, looming out of the tunnel each night to haunt my nightmares. As a rail enthusiast, I thought it would be easy to find where these sequences were filmed.

The location was Marchwood Military Harbour near Southampton, on the Harbour's internal railway network. This was all spitting distance from Marchwood Station, also known as 'Kirrin Station'.

The Spook Train itself was an Austerity 0-6-0ST engine owned by the Army named 'Waggoner', used to shunt trucks at the harbour, and it's still running today on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway should anyone want to ride behind it.

An image of Waggoner at Marchwood Base in the 1970s can be seen here
http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/pages/l ... n%2005.htm" target="_blank

Official announcement of Waggoner's return to service after restoration
http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/pages/l ... cation.htm" target="_blank

The yard was presumably some part of the base sidings, and although getting inside the base to take images is impossible, we can view satellite photos of it online.

Ariel image of the yard at Marchwood
http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=50.88958" target="_blank ... =0&src=msl

According to Gary Russel (Dick) who I emailed some years ago, the tunnel was completely fake. While I can understand the interior was a set, the exterior shots of the tunnel portal seem too convincing and too much a part of the countryside to have been a mock-up staged for children's television - I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this?

[Petermax]

The Spook Train itself was an Austerity 0-6-0ST engine owned by the Army named 'Waggoner', used to shunt trucks at the harbour, and it's still running today on the Isle of Wight Steam Railway should anyone want to ride behind it.

Thank you for that information TB3, I had no idea that Waggoner was the steam locomotive in Five Go Off To Camp. While on the same subject, the diesel locomotive that featured in three episodes of the 1970s series is also preserved. 33117 is located at the East Lancashire Railway undergoing restoration. Now all this talk of Cromptons and saddle tanks may not please everyone on this Forum, so let's change the subject slightly.

According to Gary Russel (Dick) who I emailed some years ago, the tunnel was completely fake. While I can understand the interior was a set, the exterior shots of the tunnel portal seem too convincing and too much a part of the countryside to have been a mock-up staged for children's television - I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this?

I am almost certain that the tunnel portal exterior shots were achieved by means of a simple optical illusion of the type used to depict Kirrin Island, ie the painted glass effect. Gary Russell does read these forums from time to time, so perhaps he will enlighten us?

[George@Kirrin]

TB3,

Very interesting and one of my favourite episodes.

The tunnel is a fake - if you're lucky enough to get hold of the view master reels of that episode (the only ep that was made onto them) then in one shot you can actually see the supporting structure within the wall...

[TB3]

Yo George - I agree, the tunnel interior is a fake set built over a siding through which the train ran - what intrigues me is the portal.

I am almost certain that the tunnel portal exterior shots were achieved by means of a simple optical illusion of the type used to depict Kirrin Island, ie the painted glass effect. Gary Russell does read these forums from time to time, so perhaps he will enlighten us?

The problem with the painted glass effect is that in many shots of the tunnel exterior there is a tree-branch in the foreground that proves the background is not a painted glass projection. The tunnel portal is also visibly well-built of cement and brick and looks fairly sturdy, although the tracks themselves are unballasted and have a 'temporary/hastily laid' appearance.

One possibility is that the background behind the tunnel, and the hill the tunnel enters, are actually a large set prop using forced perspective to trick the viewer into thinking they are seeing miles of scenery when in truth the horizon is just a few dozen feet from the camera. Again though, this seems like a lot of expense and effort.

Anyone else in a position to poke the shots apart and unearth the secrets of Olly's Tunnel?

[Mollybob]

While I can understand the interior was a set, the exterior shots of the tunnel portal seem too convincing and too much a part of the countryside to have been a mock-up staged for children's television - I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this?

I have only read the books and haven't seen any of the TV episodes so can't picture the tunnel exterior. Could you post a picture of it on here? I could then show it to my husband (who is a bit of a secret rail enthusiast) and he might have some idea of its whereabouts

[peppermint peppy]

Hiya Mollybob!Just have look here!
If your husband is blackened with soot......

[Moonraker]

I have only read the books and haven't seen any of the TV episodes so can't picture the tunnel exterior. Could you post a picture of it on here?

A video clip can be seen towards the end of this clip. I am sure more can be seen if you watch further parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9zT_qQt" target="_blank ... re=related

Sorry PP - didn't spot your link!

[Moonraker]

Those links were great, TB3 - thanks for posting them. This topic is very apt for me, I have just this minute finished re-reading the book, and this morning watched both series' versions of it.

The 70s adaptation was a two-parter, so gave more depth to the story. We were treated to the build-up of the story - the car journey to the moors with Mr Duffy. This seemed to me to be one of the better of the Famous Five films. Although shot in and around Exbury, it wasn't too obviously New Forest. These longer versions were certainly better than the more usual 22 minute films. I must say though, that in my opinion, the exterior shots of the tunnel were pretty poor. I don't think a real tunnel portal was used - for one thing, there was no cutting preceding the mouth. I don't know of any tunnels that start on level ground!

After watching it, I decided to watch the 90s programme. In many ways it was quite similar. I guess that most tunnels look the same inside! However, the outside of the tunnel was far more realistic. I did think at first that they were just using a bridge, as when the train came out, nothing of the inside of the tunnel could be seen. However, when the five were shown entering the tunnel, it was obviously a real one. The 90s version also included Cecil Dearlove and the Red-Indian scene - priceless! Wooden-Leg Sam had a real wooden stump, just like the Soper illustration showed. I preferred the 70s actor though, the one playing Sam in the 90s version had some annoying mannerisms.

All in all, I preferred the 70s film. I found the actors were better. This goes a bit against the grain, as I generally prefer the 90s television versions of the books.

One thing amused me in the book. On P184 (original H&S), this is what the sergeant, "an intelligent man", said...

"And we'll have to look into this Olly's Farm business sir, and these spook-trains, whatever they may be. We've known there was something funny going on, but we couldn't put our finger on it."

Hmm. Might have been an idea to visit the yard at night, follow the train till it stopped, and then arrested the men loading the train from the lorries.

As I have said before, this story bears a strong resemblance to Arnold Ridley's The Ghost Train. Here, the train ran through a station where stranded passengers were staying the night.

If it be a real train, where do 'ee come from, where do 'ee go?

[Mollybob]

Thanks for the links to YouTube. No luck recognising the tunnel portal unfortunately. My OH didn't think it looked real.

[Petermax]

I re-watched Five Go Off To Camp last night and remain convinced that the tunnel portal scene was largely achieved by painted glass. The concrete portal is clearly not a mock up though, perhaps it was part of a road bridge on part of the very extensive Marchwood Military Port railway system?

Five Go Off To Camp is indeed a very good episode, mostly due to its slower pace permitted by the forty-four minute running time. If only all of the episodes could have been two parters, but it was not to be. I presume that costs and child labour laws would have been a factor.

BTW, My quest for Mr Luffy's 1938 Morris 8 Tourer that featured so prominently continues. It would appear that both the car and its current owner are lying low and not part of the club/vintage car rally scene.

[TB3]

Thanks for everyone who's shown an interest

Regarding the 1990s series, the tunnel portal was definitely achieved via trickery.

The general 'railway' location for that series was the Tanfield Railway in County Durham, Northern England, used for both Olly's Yard and Kirrin Station.

The tunnel portal was actually a bridge with a drape hung behind it according to a post on the railway's message-board. The interior of the Spook-Train's lair was the inside of the railway's engine shed at Andrew's House (a fitting name) and the rest of the yard at Andrew's House was used as Olly's Yard.

Other sequences in the tunnel and at the bricked-up Kilty portal (a nice touch I might add) were done using mock-ups and sets, best identified by how ridiculously close together the rails are, and by the 90-degree curve the branch line takes off the main tunnel.

An aerial shot of Andrew's House Yard is linked to below, showing both the yard (centre) and the bridge that doubled as the tunnel (to the right by the car-park). Just south of the tunnel/bridge is St. Andrew's House station, aka Kirren Station.

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=54.90949 ... =0&src=msl" target="_blank

*

The 1970s series tunnel portal remains a mystery. I agree it's definately not a real tunnel as the 'flat arch' would collapse under the weight of the ground above. The structure however, although modern-ish concrete, looks old and well-used (note the stain from train smoke above the portal). If it is a bridge, it would need to be close to Marchwood - repeated analysis of the lines in the area from satellite photos has yet to turn up anything conclusive.

Nb: The shot were George looks into the portal with the yard behind her is a definite mock-up tunnel.

[Moonraker]

Most interesting, TB3 - thanks for sharing that with us. Looking at the bridge, it looks like a short tunnel to me, the other side having lost its track. Is this the case?

I always felt that the book was set in what is now known as Cumbria. The 90s adaptation being filmed in Co Durham seems to be far more realistic than the New Forest!

As HTV were partly responsible for the 90s series, I can only imagine that they had a bigger budget than Southern Television, who shot the whole series like a home movie!

[lizarfau]

I've been reading this book to my son for his bedtime story this week.

This book bugs me no end! It seems to be the one where the mistreatment of George by the boys begins. After all the adventures they've had together, why should Julian and Dick want to go off having adventures with Jock, a boy they hardly know, and leave George out of things because Anne is too scared to go and can't be left alone. What's wrong with Julian staying behind with Anne if he's that concerned? Bah!

This story reminds me (and Gabriel) more of Scooby-Doo than the other adventures do, with something supposedly supernatural being used to cover up bad doings by real folk.

[Moonraker]

I think Julian wasn't too happy about Anne being left alone at night on the moors, out of sight and hearing from Luffy. I think George's usual selfish attitude just put his back up. This was 1948 after all, and Big Brother had spoken! In those days girls had to jolly well do as they were told. Julian possibly did over-react, but I think he had to take a firm stance and Georgina should have taken it in her stride.

Happily, for the sake of the story, she didn't!

[Lucky Star]

I dont think Julian was wrong in what he did, I think Anne was displaying her most "wimpy" qualities at that point by being too scared to either go along on the adventure or stay behind on her own. After all they were only camped a few yards from Mr Luffy's tent so she had only to scream if she needed help. As Moonraker points out though the story development required a rebellious George to defy Julian and go off on her own so I would imagine Blyton had already decided, in her famous "undermind", to write it this way.

I cant recall that George was systematically badly treated by the boys. There were occasions where she and Julian argued over girls' places in things but in subsequent books she was back in her rightful place at the heart of things.