Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Moonraker
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Splodj wrote: 01 Sep 2022, 11:13 Photos of the real Witchend appear on the web and then seem to be removed, so I wonder if the occupants don't like the house being identified. I maybe completely wrong on this, but there was an article which would not specify the house name to protect their privacy.
I took a photo of the house on my visit to the area. As I remember, just past Ingles' (Hamperley)Farm.

Image
Pass Ingles' Farm and continue on the road to the right

Image
Witchend - I can't make out the name on the brown board.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

A beautiful area which I must visit one of these days.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by Lenoir »

It is beautiful. I was in the area in 1988 and saw some of the places like Clun and even the Devil's Chair.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by GloomyGraham »

Such a shame there was never a 'Lone Pine' tv series - it would have looked lovely - if filmed in the Shropshire area - judging by these photos.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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I still have an album of LP5 photos on Flickr.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjKJpa43
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Great photos, Nigel. They make me feel as though I'm there!
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Thanks, Anita. Visiting the area was one of life's highlights for me.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Meeting you was one of my life's highlights, Nigel. :D
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Here is a most interesting talk given by the MSS co-founder, Mark O'Hanlon on the life and works of Malcolm Saville. It lasts for about an hour, but I was glued to it yesterday!

Scroll down a little:

https://downtonpostcards.co.uk/
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Thanks for the link, Nigel. I've now listened to the talk and was interested to see the many photos. Although I've read The Secret of the Gorge, I knew nothing of Downton Gorge and the surrounding area so it was fascinating to learn all about it. What a pity that walking through the gorge is only permitted by appointment these days.

I've always been impressed that Malcolm Saville managed to write so many books while working as a publisher. Incidentally, Mark O'Hanlon says that Malcolm Saville went to work for Newnes in 1936 and that "a year later, Enid Blyton had her first full-length children's book published by George Newnes Ltd., so he was actually there at the birth of her writing career." Enid Blyton's writing career had actually taken off long before that, at the beginning of the 1920s, and she had many stories, poems, plays, magazines and articles to her name by 1937, as well as a number of full-length non-fiction books. As for her first full-length novel, The Enid Blyton Book of Brownies, that had been published by Newnes in 1926!

John Allsup's map of Malcolm Saville's Shropshire locations (about 21 minutes into the clip) is wonderful and I paused the video so I could have a proper look at it. Funnily enough, I was reading about Caer Caradoc just the other week in one of Hilda Boden's books about the Marlow family (Marlows Into Danger).
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Anita Bensoussane wrote: 29 Nov 2022, 18:44John Allsup's map of Malcolm Saville's Shropshire locations (about 21 minutes into the clip) is wonderful and I paused the video so I could have a proper look at it.
Yeah, good to see all the Shropshire maps from the books joined together into one big map.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by timv »

I know some but not all of the Malcolm Saville Shropshire locations, well, and have often been to Ludlow since the time I was reading the available Saville books as a teenager - when my family holidayed in the Welsh Marches and we spent the day in Ludlow and occasionally drove past 'Witchend' (at the SE end of the Long Mynd) and 'Onnybrook' (real life Marshbrook) and Church Stretton to Shrewsbury and Chester. In the 1990s I also visited the area a lot from S Wales and went by train along the route the Lone Piners use to get to Witchend, en route to and from Chester - but I've never actually been up them Mynd or to the Stiperstones. I also know Saville's East Sussex well from the time that he wrote the final Lon Pine books in the late 1960s - 1970s ,and his non-Lone Pine 'Nettleford' series sites in the Guildford area of Surrey , plus bits of his Dartmoor and his North London (the latter feature in the 'Buckinghms' series more than the LP, except for Lone Pine London). Saville had a very wide use of geographical areas and used a lot of real places under their real names, or else in light disguises, eg the Suffolk coast (Walberswick, Southwold, and Aldeburgh) and N Yorkshire (Whitby and the moorland area used in ITV's 'Heartbeat' 2000s police series). Like with Ransome and Monica Edwards, you can do a whole guidebook to his sites - and I've got the material for one, text and photos, as I've read most of his books, though finding a publisher for it has been a long process!

Notably, as with Enid, MS thought it 'normal' to have most of his teenage heroes whose parents could afford it packed off to boarding school in his 1940s and 1950s books - except the 'Nettleford' children who have less money and go to the local grammar school. His Buckingham and 'Jillies' family teens board too, even if money is tight and it is financially illogical- like Jack and Lucy Ann Trent. (Enid mostly has state school children in her 'stand alone' family books.) Saville is thus looking 'up' in an aspirational manner, to the behaviour of the then elite rather than of 90 per cent or so of the 1940s-50s school age children - as contemporary comics did, with most featuring boarding school children eg Billy Bunter and co, from the Edwardian era onwards, with the readers not put off by this but the reverse.

In the Lone Pine books, even 'Peter' who lives near Church Stretton and a short rail link to Shrewsbury and whose father doesn't appear to have much money (he's the warden of a govt reservoir on the Mynd) is at boarding school in Shrewsbury not a state school, though orphan farm boy Tom has left school (which you could do at 15 at the time); Jon goes to boarding school (presumably his late father's) though he is fatherless and his mother has to work and ends up running a hotel; Penny boards as her parents work abroad in India; the younger Mortons, aged eight or so are already at boarding school too though their parents live in London near plenty of schools.. This shows the different social attitudes of the time, and Saville has not been criticised for his 'unfair and elitist' concentration on 'unrepresentative' boarding school children as much as Enid or more visible writers. The modern critics of their 'characters' educational settings do not realise MS and Enid presumably followed the habits of 'best seller' authors in books and comics from their own teens onwards, when boarding was seen as glamorous and aspirational for all readers.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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Good analysis. Jennings is another boarder, even though Anthony Buckeridge was a 'lifelong socialist'. I think an advantage of having school stories set in boarding schools is the greater sense of community, a bit like how Christie liked to put her characters into a stranded group.

Re non-school stories, an advantage of the children being at day school is that you are not restricted to holiday time. So, for example, Secret Seven can have adventures on bonfire night.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

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timv wrote: 03 Dec 2022, 09:28 I know some but not all of the Malcolm Saville Shropshire locations, well, and have often been to Ludlow since the time I was reading the available Saville books as a teenager
We have extensively toured the Shropshire locations, taking photographs of the locations - some I have put up in a post somewhere on the forum. It was a real thrill to be at Clun Castle, the LM, Stiperstones, etc.
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Re: Malcolm Saville - Lone Pine Club, etc.

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I've been reading Malcolm Saville's Country Scrap-Book for Boys and Girls, second (enlarged) edition 1945, which I was lucky enough to pick up at the indoor market in Devizes for £1 (in a torn but reasonable dustwrapper). It's an engaging account of the British countryside, interweaving poems and photos and book recommendations.

The foreword is full of enthusiasm and encouragement but confuses England and Britain, as so many books of that era do:
It may seem strange to tell you at the beginning of a book about the country and wild life that England is yours and that when you are grown-up you will have to look after her. But this is so, because England is one of those countries where the people who live in it have a share in its planning and government...

...This book is to help you to enjoy all the wonderful things which the country has to offer and to understand what life in the country really means. People from all over the world have always come to Britain to see what we are often too busy, too lazy or indifferent to discover for ourselves. They come to see our cathedrals, our little market towns, our rolling English roads and the village churches built with the loving hands of craftsmen of a bygone age. They stand in wonder at the sight of the Scottish lakes and glens, of majestic Snowdon or Cader Idris, or at the green, windswept solitude of the Downs that run down to the southern sea...

...It is often difficult to love and respect something which we do not know very well, and so I hope that this book will send you adventuring out into the fields, forests and hillsides of our own land, to explore and discover for yourself the unchanging spirit of England, which is not so easy to recognise when it is hidden by bricks and mortar.

In the section on farm animals, I was interested to see the word "piglings" getting a mention, as well as the more common "piglets", for baby pigs. Enid Blyton uses "pigling" in Five Go to Billycock Hill, as does Beatrix Potter in The Tale of Pigling Bland. Malcolm Saville writes:
The mother pig is a sow and the father a boar. The babies are called piglets or piglings and are called weaners when they are weaned at about ten weeks old. A female weaner is called a gelt until she has had her second litter and then she becomes a sow.

Malcolm Saville also refers to hedgerows being thick with "cow parsnip", which appears to be an alternative name for what I've always known as "cow parsley".


I like the poems that are included and I particularly enjoyed 'Summer Sun' by Robert Louis Stevenson:
Great is the sun, and wide he goes
Through empty heaven without repose;
And in the blue and glowing days
More thick than rain he showers his rays.

Though closer still the blinds we pull
To keep the shady parlour cool,
Yet he will find a chink or two
To slip his golden fingers through.

The dusty attic spider-clad,
He, through the keyhole, maketh glad;
And through the broken edge of tiles,
Into the laddered hay-loft smiles.

Meantime his golden face around
He bares to all the garden ground,
And sheds a warm and glittering look
Among the ivy's inmost nook.

Above the hills, along the blue,
Round the bright air with footing true,
To please the child, to paint the rose,
The gardener of the World, he goes.

All in all, a welcome addition to my bookshelf!
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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