Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

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Anita Bensoussane
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Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Only the opening paragraphs of this article from The Herald are available to non-subscribers, so I haven't been able to read the whole thing. However, I thought people might find Rebecca McQuillan's approach to the Secret Seven books interesting (whether one approves or not!):

Sensitivity readers: Who should get to decide if fiction is offensive?

One day my daughter will realise I’ve been fibbing to her. As parents we edit our language for our children’s consumption all the time, to avoid blurting out expletives.

But I’ve been maintaining an elaborate pretence where my young daughter is concerned. She thinks that Janet in Enid Blyton’s Secret Seven is the one who leads all the adventures, goes out after dark and says patronising things to the opposite sex, while Peter pours the tea and hands out the biscuits.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics ... offensive/
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Katharine »

I haven't been able to read any more of the article, so don't know how serious or humorous it is meant to be. I'm hoping it was very much tongue in cheek as one part really concerned me, and that was the bit about Janet being patronising to the opposite sex. I'm really, really hoping that was meant to be a joke, as I think that society is in real danger at the moment of heading towards a country where females are given priority over males simply because of their gender, and where it is seen as acceptable to belittle males, but if a man tries to make jokes about a woman he's hounded for it.

I actually know someone who is currently taking a Masters degree to look into this aspect regarding education, as it would seem that there is evidence to suggest that young males are not being given equal opportunities in training, education, jobs etc because so many people are trying to be 'PC' that they are actually discriminating against males.

If the author of the article is that concerned about the patronising comments, then surely she would have been better to set her daughter a good example by editing the language to reflect respect to EVERYONE.

Rant over. ;)
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Bertie »

Thank you, Katharine. :D
For pretty much the same reasons you allude to, it's a tricky thing for a male to even bring up and complain about. But I fully agree with all the points that you make. :)
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Boatbuilder »

Now you can read the full article:

I found that the page didn't hide the full article immediately on loading it and by some strange quirk (I don't know how) I got the full article opened up in the 'Reader view' in my browser. I was then able to 'print' it from the screen as a PDF document. You can read it by downloading the PDF document I have saved on my server by clicking HERE.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Courtenay »

That's actually a really interesting and thought-provoking article — glad you were able to bootleg it for us, John BB, thank you! :wink: And thanks to Anita for finding it in the first place. It definitely raises a lot of concerns that I've been thinking about in the last few years too.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Thanks for supplying the full article, John! That's very helpful.

Rebecca McQuillan writes:
...The original work may display retrograde views, but at least it’s an honest, authentic representation of the author’s world view.

Even so, when it comes to children’s fiction, some light editing is surely legitimate, given the glaring stereotypes that some classic children’s fiction contains. With older children, you can stick with the original and use the problematic bits as discussion points, but young children do not have the context, knowledge or experience to understand bias in the same way. They accept the world
as it is presented to them, so you have to be careful.
She doesn't seem to realise that what she says in that last paragraph is undermined by her account of her daughter's response. After listening to the version where Janet and Peter's roles are swapped, Rebecca's daughter is said to have frowned and asked, "Why is it always the girls that get to do the exciting stuff? It's not fair on the boys."

That shows that Rebecca's daughter is aware of bias to some degree, and doesn't simply accept fictional worlds without thinking about what is being presented. She reflects on things and asks questions. If she'd had the original text read to her, she'd no doubt have said, "Why is it always the boys that get to do the exciting stuff? It's not fair on the girls." Then, she and her mother could have had a discussion about how the roles of boys and girls have been viewed differently over time. The girl would have learnt some history (perhaps adding to her existing knowledge) while enjoying the book as Enid Blyton wrote it.

I hope Rebecca McQuillan comes clean now, and admits to her daughter that she swapped the roles of Janet and Peter to see how it would affect the story. Otherwise, her daughter is in for a shock if she goes on to read further Secret Seven titles by herself!
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Bertie »

One of the biggest issues I have with all of this debate is why does it matter that each and every book, TV show, theatre performance and so on covers all these equality / diversity issues, etc?

There's so many options to choose from in each of those genres, why can't we just stick to some things being mostly about / aimed at one group or another? If a person doesn't feel that a particular book, film, whatever isn't really their thing, because it doesn't 'reflect' them enough, then there'll be plenty of other options to go with instead while others will absolutely love the other one exactly how it is. Why edit everything in all these genres so that they all have the same mix of everything, deal with the same social points, etc, and therefore reduce originality?

Sticking just with the Enid books, so what if she made more of the male characters 'leaders' in the books that have an equal mix of boy and girl characters? Even if we're going down the equality route, then, as a male, I'd say it 'evens up' that all the school books are set at girls schools, not boys, so have a distinct lack of male characters. Editing the Mystery / Adventure books so that they also become mostly female led would just pretty much wipe out any 'strong male role models' in Enid's books. As it is, there's a nice mix over her anthology - it's just that some are so focused on looking at the differing roles in the mixed-sex books that they're completely (or conveniently!) ignoring all the many pretty much girl-only books that 'equals it up' when all her books are considered.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Katharine »

John thanks for the full article, it made interesting reading.

Bertie, I completely agree with you about the trend for books etc having to cater for all tastes.

With perhaps a few exceptions where a piece of literature was obviously written with the intention of stirring up dangerous/illegal behaviour, then surely people should be allowed to publish what they want, especially for adults.

Regarding stereotypes in books, while I certainly think that children are going to be influenced by what they read, I would imagine a large part of their behaviour/attitudes is learned by the people around them. A girl might read a book where girls wait on boys hand and foot, but if she has parents who share household chores, or is brought up by an independent single mother, then I would have thought that would have more influence on her than whatever she is reading. The chances are, if it doesn't reflect her own experience of life, she will either discard it as it is out touch with what she knows, or she may enjoy reading it because it is so different to her own life.

As I've probably said before, I didn't have a problem reading books set in boarding schools, or houses with servants, cooks, gardeners etc. even though none of the settings bore any resemblance to my childhood.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I think the same about older books, Katharine. As you say, they're only one of many varied influences on a child, so it makes sense to leave the text alone and let young readers of today have a glimpse of an earlier way of life. I loved reading books by E. Nesbit and Laura Ingalls Wilder as a child in the 1970s, as well as classics like The Secret Garden, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, Heidi, What Katy Did and Anne of Green Gables. It was fun reading about bygone times and different countries - so refreshingly different from my own life in some ways, yet the characters seemed perfectly real to me as they displayed human traits that are seen from generation to generation such as curiosity, kindness, greed, pride, humour, meanness, courage, fear, joy, etc. I felt just as strong a connection to the characters in those books as I did to the characters in more modern books, while learning some history in the process. Why deprive today's children of that experience?
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Boatbuilder »

I wholeheartedly agree with what has been written by everyone on here since I posted the full article. Maybe Rebecca McQuillan should be invited to read the comments that have been made on here in response to it. They are probably more sensible than any comments (if they are made) that may have been posted after the article in the Scottish Herald.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Hannah »

Thanks for making the article available, John.
Regarding Blyton's books I agree with what was said in this thread.

I think the author misses a point regarding sensitivity readers though.
And then there is the fundamental question of whether adults need to be protected in this way. Readers can already vote with their wallets and their online reviews if they are offended.
It's not only about the reader being offended but about other people being affected when e. g. clichés are reproduced. For example autistic people are often portrayed in a stereotyped way and unfortunately people believe that autistic people are like that which can have very negative consequences for the autistic people.

That's not much different from the discussion about gender roles in the books and how they might influence childrens' views - stereotypes can do a lot of harm to people (who must not necessarily be the readers of the books), no matter if the book is meant to be for children or adults. I'm not advocating for changing older literature but I think it's a good idea to write new books in a way that doesn't cause harm to other people.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by GloomyGraham »

I presume when she reads 'The Lion, The WItch and the Wardrobe', Lucy is the selfish, greedy one who betrays her siblings to the White Witch and Edmund is the brave and lovable kid who makes friends with Mrs Tumnus.
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by dsr »

She's going to struggle with Swallows and Amazons! Will Captain Nancy be a boy?

More seriously, the problem with editing out stereotypes is that you tend towards everyone being the same, which is a new stereotype in itself.

Besides, it only takes a brief glance at bookshelves in children's shops to see that they are full of very modern, non-stereotyped children with all sorts of disabilities and sexual preferences (mostly in older children's books) - if none of them are as good at holding a child's attention as Enid Blyton's books written seventy or eighty years ago, so be it. They need to write better ones!
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Re: Article in The Herald - Secret Seven interest

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

There are many modern children's writers whose books are compelling and I'd be very surprised if they had trouble holding the attention of young readers. I'm talking about novels aimed at children aged around 8-12 (as a rough guide). Judith Eagle, Emma Carroll and Natasha Farrant are some of my favourites of those writers - and I've also just read Peril on the Atlantic by A. M. Howell and Greenwild - the World Behind the Door by Pari Thomson, both of which are truly gripping. All those authors write books with plenty of action, intrigue and emotion, and with engaging characters whom the reader quickly comes to care for. Some of the stories have a modern setting, some are historical and others are fantasy, but there's typically a large element of adventure and discovery. There's often a family secret to unravel, as well as other mysteries to solve and schemes to uncover, and all the writers I've mentioned have a very readable style.

It's likely that many children who read those will also enjoy Enid Blyton and other authors from past decades/centuries, and will automatically make comparisons for themselves between older and newer books. Altering the texts takes away that opportunity to compare, ponder and learn.

The problem with "sensitivity reading" was evident from recent changes made to Roald Dahl's books, in which many of the alterations were crude, ill-informed and laughable. The so-called "sensitivity editor" used by Puffin/Penguin was actually so insensitive that people wondered whether the text had been edited by an AI robot! An editor needs to be sensitive to an author's style of writing and to context, and to have a sound knowledge of history, literature and etymology. Even then, it would surely be better to write an introduction to the book, putting things into context. That would allow for points to be made without interfering with the author's words.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
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