Nature

[Katharine]

When I kept guinea pigs I often encountered mice in the shed, as they were attracted to the food and bedding. I had a 'humane' trap, which was very successful. Whenever I discovered a mouse in it, I'd just wander up the road to the cemetery and set it free.

The only reason I got my father to kill the mouse last week was because it appeared to be ill and I felt a quick death was preferable to letting it suffer any more. Plus, as I suspected it may have eaten the rat poison, I was concerned it would crawl away and die somewhere out of sight and possibly be eaten by something else which could suffer from the poison. I'm not sure how lethal the rat poison is, or how long it lasts.

[Carlotta King]

Thanks Julie and Fiona, its good to hear that not everyone thinks I'm crazy!

Katharine I agree, if something is suffering then its the kindest thing to give it a quick death so it doesn't suffer any more.
I've done the same with insects loads of times; there have been times when I've found bees, wasps, beetles and butterflies half squashed on pavements or paths, obviously trodden on or something, and I've given them a quick death by stamping on them. Sounds horrible and I would never stamp on something that was alive and well, but when something is half squashed and suffering, a quick stamp puts the poor thing out of its misery.

The thing I think is vile is putting down traps that cause pain and suffering to innocent creatures that are alive and well, just for the sake of getting them out of the house, when it's just as simple to take them back outside and let them go peacefully.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Nature is wonderful, and like Cathy, I too couldn't kill anything.

I take a different view because I have a skin disease which means that all kinds of horrible bacteria thrive on my body, causing hundreds of sores which hurt and itch and affect my concentration and my sleep. It's impossible to get rid of the bacteria completely but I can keep them down to some extent by applying antibiotic products and using special washes. Several times I've had complications from the bacteria, such as widespread impetigo and cellulitis which might have led to sepsis, so I'm not just going to do nothing about it. Nature can be far from wonderful at times!

When my daughter was little and had head lice I removed them all with a nit comb. Some went down the plug hole and others were thrown away on a piece of tissue. Whether the lice could still survive away from the scalp, I didn't know. However, I wasn't going to let them live on my daughter's head! I would have the same attitude if I had a dog with fleas or worms - the fleas or worms would have to go and I wouldn't be going out of my way to preserve their lives!

Someone lent us a humane trap to try to catch the mice in our house, but it didn't catch anything. My mum suggested the snappy traps and they caught the mice quickly. It was important to get rid of them pronto as I'm allergic to animal fur, epidermis and saliva and have to avoid having animals in the house. A couple of years ago we used wire wool, filler, etc. to block up all holes and mouse-proof the house, and we haven't been troubled by mice since.

As far as I'm concerned, it comes down to health. If living beings in our house or on our bodies are putting our health at risk, I consider them to be pests.

[Katharine]

I don't think Cathy is crazy, but I can sympathise with Anita. I tend to treat each situation on its merit, I think I mostly work on a 'them or me' basis. I've never had mice in the house, so don't now how I'd react. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't sure poison though, as I'd be afraid it would be carried by the mouse elsewhere in the house. I'd rather have mice than poisoned children! I wouldn't think twice about removing head lice either, however I'd prefer to use the longer nit comb method than any chemicals. Not out of sympathy for the lice though, but because I'd be worried about the long term effects on my child's scalp.

I don't have a problem with killing wasps or blue bottle type flies in my house, as I think flies could spread disease and as there's a history of allergies to wasp stings in my family, I'd rather remove the risk completely by killing the wasp, than releasing it to potentially come back and sting us anyway. I would never kill a spider though, unless perhaps it was a venomous one! I was quite saddened the other day to hear of someone talking about a beach hut they'd had the use of. It would seem they were probably the first people this season to use it, so it was full of spiders. They said they'd never killed so many in one go, I felt sorry for the spiders, I'd rather leave them, and just remove the cobwebs.

Sometimes I find the lines blurred between respecting nature though, as I'm strongly against fox hunting, however I don't like foxes after they killed my mother's chickens. I'm not sure what the solution is though. I know of 2 other people who have lost chickens to foxes, one I think has had to resort to bringing the hens into the house every night, the other has finally thrown in the towel after losing numerous chickens over the years, despite him put a roof on the cage and putting footings around the cage to stop the fox burrowing under the fence. Somehow it still found a way in, and what is so hard to bear with foxes, is they don't just kill the one bird and take it to eat, but it kills them all. I think this chap lost about a dozen chickens - all there the next day for him to have to dispose of.

[Carlotta King]

Its difficult isnt it. I completely sympathise with Anita and with the ones who've lost their chickens.
And I have to admit that, of course, I use flea treatment on George when he's needed it; I never hesitate.
So perhaps I shouldn't be mouthing off so much about never killing anything, because I'm obviously far from perfect.

I know we cant get by in life without killing things, ie fleas, headlice, etc. But I still do feel a bit bad killing even the smallest thing because its still alive after all, but if it was posing a threat to George like fleas, I have to do it.

I guess I just want to do as much as I can to not kill as many things as possible if I can get them out kindly instead. Its obviously not possible to be humane to every single thing, but the more the better in my opinion.

Same with animal testing and animals for food, I don't eat meat and every item of makeup, toiletries and cleaning products that I buy are all cruelty-free; I meticulously check everything I buy, and only buy brands that I know are 100% cruelty-free and haven't been tested on any animals.
However I do drink milk and eat eggs. So while I cant claim to never ever consume anything where an animal might have been unhappy, I feel a lot happier knowing that I am at least making a large effort with most products, and can do my hair and makeup safe in the knowledge that no poor creatures have been sprayed in the face or killed just so I can look nice and clean my house.

[Rob Houghton]

Carlotta - I feel the same about most creatures. I hate to even kill fleas on our cat or flies - but fleas are definitely something I have to kill, or else the cats (and us!) would be infested in no time. Hate fleas!

I rarely kill anything else though - always catch spiders and put them out, remembering the old saying 'If you want to live and thrive, let the spider run alive' - because of course, they eat many pests and insects. I never kill wasps even though I hate them, and when it comes to mice I hate the idea of mouse traps - terrible things - although I have no objection to them being used by other people. I'm just glad I'm able to have a cat without getting allergies, because our cats certainly ensure there are no mice in the house. I don't ever recall a mouse being in our house except when the cat brought one in once and it escaped under the settee!

A hedgehog came into our garden yesterday - only a baby - and he looked injured - could hardly walk. We gave it some food - cat food - and water, and it ate it, but this morning it had died, unfortunately. It's ironic because we have so many slugs in our garden, but hadn't seen a hedgehog for a couple of years until this one - so I presume there must be others around.

[Katharine]

Shame about the hedgehog Rob. I think we might have one in our garden/area as I've seen two lots of what I think are its droppings. I'm not a dung expert and didn't want to look too closely, but I can't think what else it could have been. That's the only problem with me tidying up our garden, I might be disturbing all sorts of creatures and their habitat.

[Poppy]

I have to say, I would never dream of killing anything like a mouse, or even a rat - but any moth or fly that enters my house will be hunted down and whacked with a rolled up magazine. I admit that sometimes I feel a little guilty, but it really makes me feel sick if there are flies in my living space and they have to be gotten rid of ASAP. If I could, I would prefer them to get out like through a window or something, however, I often panic and do the first thing that comes into my head which is just to kill them.

I do hate the thought of anything suffering though, and I wouldn't let that happen.

I'm not a horrible person or anything, who wants to deliberately kill insects - I love animals and I hate animal cruelty, but I think insects are different, and they don't belong in my home; especially not fleas and stuff, urghh!

[Daisy]

That's the only problem with me tidying up our garden, I might be disturbing all sorts of creatures and their habitat.

It's a jolly good reason for leaving a big "natural" area for wild life to enjoy.

[IceMaiden]

I don't like killing anything, but it depends if it's harmless or harmful on if I will or not. I remember the whole class being sent to collect wood lice for a science lesson once, and at the end when everyone else simply took them outside and let the go wherever, I took mine all the way down to the school grounds, because I wanted to put it back exactly where I'd found it! I got a row too for being late back to class as the teacher didn't think it was an acceptable reason .

I try to have a live and let live attitude, but there are times when you have to do something, flying ants appearing on the carpets or a huge wasps nest right outside the bedroom window obviously couldn't just be left. And when somebody bought a dog to the house who, unbeknown to me, had fleas, I'm afraid I went mad with the insecticide and sprayed so much I probably poisoned everything in a mile radius including myself! I was hopping mad about it, because I've always kept my own dogs meticulously spotless and I ended up paying a fortune to sort out a problem due to someone else's . I don't like having to 'sort' anything really, but some things have to be dealt with as its detrimental not to. Flies and ticks for instance spread awful diseases so like it or not, the flies get zapped and ticks get flushed away .

I couldn't deal with furry pests though, what most people class as 'vermin' I call adorable. I love rodents (minus wild rats) and could never see them as pests, not even the squirrels who got into the loft one winter and ate the carefully stockpiled supply of Christmas chocolates .

[Carlotta King]

Carlotta - I feel the same about most creatures. I hate to even kill fleas on our cat or flies - but fleas are definitely something I have to kill, or else the cats (and us!) would be infested in no time. Hate fleas!

I rarely kill anything else though - always catch spiders and put them out, remembering the old saying 'If you want to live and thrive, let the spider run alive' - because of course, they eat many pests and insects. I never kill wasps even though I hate them, and when it comes to mice I hate the idea of mouse traps - terrible things - although I have no objection to them being used by other people. I'm just glad I'm able to have a cat without getting allergies, because our cats certainly ensure there are no mice in the house. I don't ever recall a mouse being in our house except when the cat brought one in once and it escaped under the settee!

A hedgehog came into our garden yesterday - only a baby - and he looked injured - could hardly walk. We gave it some food - cat food - and water, and it ate it, but this morning it had died, unfortunately. It's ironic because we have so many slugs in our garden, but hadn't seen a hedgehog for a couple of years until this one - so I presume there must be others around.

I'm glad its not just me who feels sorry for tiny things too!
But yes, fleas have to go! Quite a few years ago I had an infestation of them, not quite sure how it happened because I have always used Frontline as soon as I spotted one, but they got a hold somehow and oh my goodness it was awful, you couldn't even step into the room without them all clustering on your ankles, it was hell.

But flies and wasps and spiders etc I always put back outside. We get quite lethargic wasps in sometimes and I can usually manage to catch them in a glass if they're a bit sleepy, but if there's an angry fully awake one I just open the window wide, go out of the room, shut the door and don't go back in for a few hours until its gone out!

Craneflies are the one thing I just cannot deal with, they terrify me beyond belief, the way they fly at your face and deliberately divebomb you is just horrific, so George has to deal with them for me becasuse I can't even set foot in the room if there's one in there, but at least they don't suffer either because one crunch and he's eaten it!

Poor hedgehog, sounds like something had been at him, although I'm not sure what would go for a hedgehog?!
Although, I do know from Philip Mannering that baby hedgehogs have soft spines, so perhaps they're easier to get at than we think!

[Rob Houghton]

The only insect I'm really terrified of is wasps. It's not a phobia as such - I can see one and be okay about it, or watch film of them or see photos, but if one starts nosing around me and won't go away I turn into a screaming loony - embarrassing! I would usually do the same as you, Carlotta, and open windows and shut the door until the wasp left of its own accord.

I wondered about the hedgehog, as I thought nothing much would attempt to attack a hedgehog - even our cat, who chases squirrels and even foxes, only sniffs at a hedgehog and usually avoids them - but something had obviously happened to it. About an hour before it appeared I heard our next door-but-one neighbour clearing out their shed, and bumping heavy stuff around, so maybe it got injured then.

[Poppy]

We had a baby hedgehog in our garden the other day and it didn't look too well so I did exactly what you did, Rob, I gave it some food and water, but it also sadly died. The hedges at the back of my garden got cut earlier that day (not by us, our house backs onto a school field and the hedges belong to them, so they arrange when they get cut) and I think it might have been injured by the tractor thing that came to cut them, because we've seen hedgehogs regularly come from that sort of area. It was so sad.

[Courtenay]

It is a really complex issue, "to kill or not to kill", I agree. When I was in my late teens and early 20s I wanted to be a vegan and got quite wound up about it for a while, but I gradually realised that the world just isn't so simplistic — it would be virtually impossible for anyone to follow a completely cruelty-free lifestyle in absolutely every way and still stay reasonably sane (like what to do with fleas on one's dog or cat — or whether it's right to keep a pet animal, especially a naturally meat-eating one, at all!), and one can easily get a bit self-righteous about it too. I guess everyone just has to make their own choices wherever they are as to what's most right under the circumstances. I almost always catch and release any insects or other unwanted critters that get indoors — beetles, moths, spiders, wasps and so on — and I would rather use a deterrent than any kind of killing method, unless an infestation of something has got completely out of hand and there's no other way. But then, I do draw the line in odd places sometimes too. Back in Australia I was a crack shot with the fly swatter — we have monster blowflies sometimes — and I show mosquitoes no mercy whatsoever.

[Anita Bensoussane]

Sorry to hear about the chickens, Katharine. I don't know what the answer is to that. I'm sorry about the hedgehogs as well, Rob and Poppy. I've helped injured slow-worms and birds from time to time.

I agree that these things are difficult, Cathy, and I certainly don't think you're crazy either! I'm another one who shoos flies, wasps and bees out of the house rather than killing them, and carries spiders outside.

One thing I don't like at all is the idea of keeping birds and animals in cages (I'm talking about standard-sized cages/hutches/tanks rather than large aviaries etc.) but plenty of people in my family have no problem with that and I accept that they have different views.