Dr Who

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 29 May 2006, 12:12

To those who are interested, here is a history of the Daleks.

http://tinyurl.com/q8p7k

George@Kirrin · Post by **George@Kirrin** » 04 Jun 2006, 15:58

This weeks Ep - how fantastic was that?!?! Proper monsters...

Post by **Keith Robinson** » 04 Jun 2006, 16:30

moonraker wrote:To those who are interested, here is a history of the Daleks.

It's interesting that "Dalek History" now includes an explanation for the continuity error I mentioned earlier in this thread:

"A group of advanced Daleks survived the explosion by leaving the planet in a hastily constructed spacecraft. Those Daleks left behind were early products of Davros's experimental programme and, although many survived the neutron bomb, they remained trapped in the bunkers beneath the Kaled city for centuries. These Daleks were dependent on both static electricity and high levels of radiation, and their weapons were comparatively weak. The primitive Daleks were destroyed by the Doctor in this story."

The first sentence of the above snippet refers to Tom Baker's episode, Genesis of the Daleks, which takes place before William Hartnell's original episode, The Daleks, in which the Daleks were trapped in their metal city. This explanation as to how Tom Baker's Daleks could move about on dirt and William Hartnell's Daleks couldn't is pretty sound, but was only concocted after fans pointed out the blunder.

Not that it matters...

And George, you're teasing me again. Proper monsters indeed! I've seen the trailer for The Impossible Planet but the monsters look like, well, humanoid people will alien head-masks on, with tentacles that wobble a bit when they speak perfect English. (I'm very hard to please when it comes to monsters.)

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 05 Jun 2006, 09:57

Keith Robinson wrote:
And George, you're teasing me again. Proper monsters indeed! I've seen the trailer for The Impossible Planet but the monsters look like, well, humanoid people will alien head-masks on, with tentacles that wobble a bit when they speak perfect English. (I'm very hard to please when it comes to monsters.)

I thought they looked like messy eaters who couldn't finish their spaghetti.

Steve Alpe · Post by **Steve Alpe** » 05 Jun 2006, 13:53

I was recently successful in purchasing a load of old childrens books in a local auction - only really bid for it as it had an old copy of the Further Adventures of Josie, Click & Bun amongst the books - the only Enid Blyton book among them. However, in among the books were about 6 'old' Doctor Who paperbacks. So have started to read these (sorry to admit but Enid has taken a bit of a backseat at the moment) One which was Doctor Who & the Tenth Planet. I am now trying to buy some more of the original stories. I have just been succesful in bidding on Ebay for a copy of The Unearthly Child - the first televised Doctor Who episode. The first three doctors were the best with Jo (Katie Manning) the best assistant.

As for the latest 2 doctors series I feel that they are all to rushed cramming everything into one episode. Only two stories have been in two parts, including the latest with 'the spaghetti eaters', with the corresponding 'cliff hanger' endings.

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 05 Jun 2006, 14:54

Steve Alpe wrote:As for the latest 2 doctors series I feel that they are all to rushed cramming everything into one episode. Only two stories have been in two parts, including the latest with 'the spaghetti eaters', with the corresponding 'cliff hanger' endings.

I agree, Steve. I used to really like the 4 part stories - so much more substance. I don't like the way these stories are wrapped-up so quickly, a la "Sea of Adventure"!

Post by **Keith Robinson** » 05 Jun 2006, 16:18

Steve, I partially agree too (about the stories being too fast and furious). I must admit that 4 old 25 minute episodes seemed about right, with the 6-parters being too long and the occasional 7-8 parters being yawn-o-rama. And one 45 minute episode is a bit short. But then again, I don't much like waiting for the next episode, so would prefer a single 1 hr 30 mins episode, or even 1 hr at a push.

But actually, some slightly better writing might sort the problem. If you watch any US sci-fi show, whether you like it or not, they seem to be paced very nicely and you get time to digest everything. These episodes run for an hour, but with commericals, so 45 mins in total, like Doctor Who... and yet they seem better produced. I hate to say it, but I don't think Doctor Who's settled into its 45 minute slot yet. It always seems to start out well-paced, and then runs out of time and has to rush to a conclusion (usually a bit of a silly one). Honestly, compare the pacing to any episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation or Stargate SG-1 or anything along those lines and I think the biggest difference is not the running length but the Doctor's manic behavior (and the general fast-paced action). I think 45 mins will be fine if the writers can slow things down a little, give us something to chew on while we watch, instead of rushing us and leaving us breathless.

As for those old books, Steve... I wish I could go back and stop myself selling my 110-book collection!!! At the time (mid-80s) I had every book that had been published; from around Jon Pertwee or Tom Baker onwards the shows were novelized as the episodes were released, and I had all but a few of those (some were late in being written), so all that remained was for the writers to catch up by writing all the rest of the first and second Doctor books. So during the Peter Davison era I had every book there was available, and An Unearthly Child was quite a late addition to the collection (and quite exciting at the time).

And yes, the third Doc with Jo Grant were my faves to read!! (But, oddly, Tom Baker was my fave to watch; some of those old Pertwee episodes were painfully drawn out, some in 7-8 parts as I said above.) The episodes I remember most were Robot (aka The Giant Robot), Genesis of the Daleks, The Hand of Fear, and The Seeds of Doom. On watching all the episodes on UK Gold about six years ago, Robot dropped right out of my "faves" list, and The Hand of Fear was nice to remember but not that good. Genesis of the Daleks is a classic, but I still think my favorite is The Seeds of Doom (where the alien pod opens and a tendril comes out, bites the victim, and the victim slowly mutates into a vegetable man, and then grows into a gigantic Krynoid that towers over the house (filmed at Longleat).

Trivial fact for those who remember this vegetable-man costume -- it was the same costume used in The Claws of Axos, only it was was changed from orange to green...

Classic!!

Lulie · Post by **Lulie** » 05 Jun 2006, 16:44

I thought the villains/monsters looked like turkeys with messy wattles!! But spaghetti eaters will do for me

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 05 Jun 2006, 17:15

Keith Robinson wrote: Honestly, compare the pacing to any episode of Star Trek

How I agree with you, Keith. I have thought time after time, when wondering about 45 minutes for a story, it was fine for Star Trek. It is all down to pacing; 8 mins intro, 28 mins fighting the foe, 9mins wrapping it up - and sensibly!

I must list among my favourites, Pyramids of Mars and The Daemons.

Post by **Keith Robinson** » 05 Jun 2006, 19:26

moonraker wrote:I must list among my favourites, Pyramids of Mars and The Daemons.

Gosh, yes -- you're obviously a man of taste. Although The Daemons was better as a book because Bok the Gargoyle was obviously just some kid in spandex with an ugly mask, and when Az-something (the Daemon) grew to giant size it all looked very silly.

The Daemons is one story that was (partially) lost forever, so the only copy available is mostly in black and white. Otherwise Pertwee's stories were all in color. A shame.

Moonraker · Post by **Moonraker** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:28

Keith Robinson wrote:
moonraker wrote:I must list among my favourites, Pyramids of Mars and The Daemons.
The Daemons is one story that was (partially) lost forever, so the only copy available is mostly in black and white. Otherwise Pertwee's stories were all in color. A shame.

I am sure I've got a copy of it somewhere - I must look it out. I may have taped it off the tv. I can't remember it being in b&w though, I thought it was colour. You say mostly in b&w?

I loved the creatures, and love the village of Aldbourne, near Marlborough, in Wiltshire, where it was filmed. There is a wonderful Wadworth's pub here, The Blue Boar - right on the village green. Quintessentially English!

Steve Alpe · Post by **Steve Alpe** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:35

I notice that quite few on the old Doctor Who episodes are being sold either as Videos or DVDs. That way the 4 part serials will not seem to bad and the 7 - 8 parters will be brilliant as you can watch in them one go or as two parter.

I have just been succesful in bidding for the DVD of 'The Unearthly Child' and I will probably buy some more (Enid Blyton takes a further back seat!).

Steve Alpe · Post by **Steve Alpe** » 06 Jun 2006, 10:43

Have just done a search on Ebay and there copies of the Deamons Video listed - some indicate in their titles that they are in colour. I will go and check whether they are 'complete'

Post by **Keith Robinson** » 06 Jun 2006, 17:16

I remember between 1999-2001, when I was still living in England, UK Gold showed every single Doctor Who story from start to finish, one story a week whether it was 2 episodes or 8 (they adjusted scheduling to suit), every Sunday morning. They went from An Unearthly Child right through to the Sylvester McCoy stories, and then started over (took nearly a year to get through them all!).

When it got to Jon Pertwee, the old black and white shows turned to color (this was 1970). With Pertwee everything changed -- it was set on Earth, the film was in color, and they did more outdoors stuff (where the gritty outdoor film was in complete contrast to the bright and shiny studio shots). All Pertwee episodes should be color, but they lost one or two episodes of The Daemons; maybe it was just one part that was in black and white, I can't remember, but it stuck in my mind as strange when I saw the whole show on UK Gold that time, with this single black and white episode stuck in the middle of the color ones. Maybe it's been colorized or fully recovered now?

I also know that a few decades ago the BBC threw out a whole load of old film reels, and many of those included Doctor Who. That's why many Hartnell and Troughton stories are missing (and that Daemons episode), and why it's such big news when "a copy of an episode is found in someone's attic in China" or something like that:

"Doctor Who was first shown in the UK in November 1963. The series was a success and was soon seen in countries all over the world. By the 1970's the show had moved to colour and the old 60's black and white episodes were becoming less popular to show as more and more foreign TV stations opted to show the newer colour stories instead. The copies distributed abroad were supposed to be either destroyed or returned to the BBC after use. Believing that the BBC film archive held copies of all Doctor Who stories, BBC Enterprises decided that their old black and white film prints would no longer be required for overseas sales and their destruction began in the early 1970s.

"It was later discovered that the film Archive did not keep copies, all the original prints and negatives had been passed to Enterprises. By the late 1970s virtually all the 60s episodes had been destroyed. Copies of many episodes have subsequently been found in other BBC archives and returned from foreign TV stations and private collectors. 109 episodes are still missing. If anybody has any information on any missing episodes, please let us know so that we can get the episodes safely returned to the BBC..."

You can Google for more info about lost episodes, and I'd be interested to know whether The Daemons was fully recovered or just reconstructed or colorized.

Steve Alpe · Post by **Steve Alpe** » 08 Jun 2006, 13:07

Thanks Keith for this information. This is also true of some the early Dad's Army episodes and probably numerous other excellent series from that era as well.

If I am successful with my bid for the video and when I get around to watching it I will let you know about the Daemons programme.

As for Doctor Who being on Sunday morning - I only had Sky for a short while so only got to see a couple of the episodes - but I was normally out at a boot sale or a stamp fair or just in bed recovering from a hangover!