English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

[Moonraker]

Has anyone ever, despite seeing what others around them do, deliberately not followed suit, and why?

I hardly use the Oxford comma in a list, unless I wish to give extra emphasis to the last item. For example:
My favourite groups of the 60s are The Move, The Kinks, The Rolling Stones, and most importantly, The Beatles.

This might now be the best example, but I am sure you will get my gist.

[Fiona1986]

I read something interesting about this today - though I can't remember all the details... perhaps someone will recognise what I'm on about.

I think that it suggested these 'ambiguous' lists like thanking your parents, Oprah Winfrey and God (to steal Courtenay's example!) shouldn't be ambiguous at all, and that people who think that Oprah and God are the parents are assuming the first comma is a semicolon.

"I'd like to thank my parents; Oprah Winfrey and God." - I'm thanking two people and clarifying with their names
"I'd like to thank my parents, Oprah Winfrey and God." - I'm thanking three people

But these interpretations may depend on the grammar rules surrounding the semicolon on which I am not an expert.

[Courtenay]

It actually should be a colon rather than a semicolon, when a list follows it: "I'd like to thank my parents: Oprah Winfrey and God." (The colon always introduces either a list, or something that's being introduced as a direct follow-on from the statement before it — like, well, how I used it in the previous sentence.)

It's a bit complicated to explain, but it's set out pretty well in one of my favourite books on this topic, the legendary Eats, Shoots and Leaves by Lynne Truss. I'm away from home at the moment, though, so unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I can't quote from it!!

[Fiona1986]

See, I knew I'd only got half the story

[Anita Bensoussane]

It would be unusual for me to use an Oxford comma but I might consider it if the items in the list were quite lengthy, especially if they contained the word 'and'. Here's an example:


Her favourite foods are fish and chips, pie and mash, and bacon and eggs.


It wouldn't be wrong to leave out the comma after 'mash', but it helps to separate the meals.

[Fiona1986]

You could always use a nacton instead -

Her favourite foods are fish 'n' chips, pie 'n' mash and bacon 'n' eggs.

No Oxford comma needed

[Courtenay]

Nacton! I didn't know there was an actual word for abbreviating and to 'n'.

Now this brings up another of my pet peeves, when names of businesses use the nacton but don't put an apostrophe either side of the 'n' where it's lost both the first and last letter of "and". Like, for example, the fun park on Phillip Island (near where I grew up), featuring a huge maze and other attractions, with the quirky name of A Maze'N Things. Which is a clever pun on "Amazing Things" / "A Maze and Things", but they always spell it with only one apostrophe, when it SHOULD be A Maze 'N' Things!!!

[Boatbuilder]

Nacton is also a village in East Suffolk.

[Courtenay]

Nacton is also a village in East Suffolk.

Ah, and that Wikipedia article explains how the name came to be used in the way we've just heard it:

In popular culture
Nacton's name was used as a word coined by Douglas Adams to describe the letter 'N' when inserted between two other words as an abbreviation for 'and', as in rock 'n' roll and fish 'n' chips.

We're not told why it was chosen, but considering that is Douglas Adams as in The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy etc., the reason might be something totally beyond all earthly logic...

[Boatbuilder]

I thought he might have had connections with Nacton but it's not even mentioned about his coining of the word in his biography on Wikipedia, which I find strange. He was born in the next county, though - Cambridgeshire, so maybe he had visited Nacton at some time.

[Anita Bensoussane]

You could always use a nacton instead -

Her favourite foods are fish 'n' chips, pie 'n' mash and bacon 'n' eggs.

No Oxford comma needed

Good idea!

Like others, I hadn't heard the term 'nacton'. The definition (Douglas Adams' definition?) given in your link makes me chuckle:

Nacton (n.)
The 'n' with which cheap advertising copywriters replace the word 'and' (as in 'fish 'n' chips', 'mix 'n' match', 'assault 'n' battery'), in the mistaken belief that this is in some way chummy or endearing.

I must say I think the 'nacton' is useful as it does a good job of conveying the way we shorten the word 'and' in those expressions.

[Fiona1986]

Yes, well-spotted Courtenay. It's from the book The Meaning Of Liff. Douglas Adams and John Lloyd took place names from all around the world (after all, they were just sitting there on signs doing nothing) and used them to define all the things we have no word for. My family have all read it and certain words have entered regular use for us.

[Boatbuilder]

This not really a grammar, spelling or vocabulary error, but I had a reason to ring the Royal Mint this morning regarding an outstanding order I have with them and checked for the phone number to call on their website 'contact us' page.

Whilst doing so, I spotted an obvious error. No prizes, but who can spot it first on this screen-clip?



I did point it out to the person I spoke to so I wonder if it will be corrected.

[Katharine]

Should be Friday 22nd?

[Boatbuilder]

Exactly, Katharine. I wish they'd make an error like sending me a gold coin when I order a silver one.