Eileen Soper or Betty Maxey?

[Anita Bensoussane]

Probably comes from the famous Country & Western song Jolene by Dolly Parton and about a zillion others. Its quite a good song actually even though country is not my favourite music.

Yes, I rather like it too although I've never listened to much Country & Western.

[Stephen]

Whereas Betty's Five merely looked like 70s versions of the Eileen's originals, how was it that their Uncle Quentins looked so different? Eileen's was a tall, austere man who I could well believe was the stern, frowning parent of Enid's books. But Betty's Quentin looked like a cross between Bobby Ball, Mario and one of Harry Enfield's Scousers - and didn't look in the slightest bit intimidating!

[Clare]

I don't know who illustrated the Famous Five books I read in the '80s. The children all wore flared jeans, including Anne, in that edition. Any ideas?

The edition I'm reading now is illustrated by Eileen Soper, and, to be honest, I'm not that keen. The drawings are good, but there are some mistakes (like in Five On A Hike Together, she gets the boat wrong, and draws two men, whereas one of them ought to be a woman called Maggie!), and George looks a bit too much like a boy in many of the pictures.

[Lenoir]

I see what you mean: she drew the boat Cheeky Charlie instead of Merry Meg. Well spotted!
But I think the drawing of Maggie is okay. She is wearing a turban as described in the text. She looks “as hard as nails” according to Julian, and that is probably why she looks more like a man than a woman in that picture.

[Dick Kirrin]

As I collect (presently) the Knight papersbacks with photos from the 1978s TV series for covers, I'm stuck with Betty Maxey. And I must say that I like them.
I don't have too many books illustrated by Eileen Soper, but from what I saw in books on the EB day and on the society website, I think I would like them. But yet not enough to buy books just for the Soper illustrations in them. Otherwise I'd have taken the oppurtunity on the EB day, I reckon.

About being influenced by the illustrations/TV series you first encountered, I for one always detested the illustrations in the German Famous Five books I had as a child. When the 1996s TV series was first broadcast here, I watched it and, to be honest, I liked it. Another channel ran the 1978s version at the same time, and by comparision it was clear which series got the period right.
Giving it a second thought and watching more closely, I completely changed my mind and now like the 1978s version a lot better. Apart from the setting and the period feel, the 1978s version is simply better, I think.

I coloured my German copy of "Five get into trouble", but that was the only book I had a go at. As I wrote, I didn't really like the German illustrations and so soon got tired of it.

Cheers

Dick Kirrin

[Clare]

I see what you mean: she drew the boat Cheeky Charlie instead of Merry Meg. Well spotted!
But I think the drawing of Maggie is okay. She is wearing a turban as described in the text. She looks “as hard as nails” according to Julian, and that is probably why she looks more like a man than a woman in that picture.

Sorry, I didn't make it clear, I was referring to two different pictures. The one with the two men (one of whom is meant to be Maggie) is 10 pages before the Cheeky Charlie boat picture. The two grown-ups on page 126 are definitely men!

[Rob Houghton]

I see what you mean: they certainly look like men, but I'm pretty sure the figure on the right is supposed to be Maggie (with a tie, and possibly a turban, which looks more like hair).

[Clare]

I see what you mean: they certainly look like men, but I'm pretty sure the figure on the right is supposed to be Maggie (with a tie, and possibly a turban, which looks more like hair).

Yes, that could be a turban, now you mention it.

I don't remember any mention of a turban in the text in the edition I've got, and I can't find any mention of it either. Maybe that's another alteration that's been made.

[Rob Houghton]

on page 125 (first edition) Enid describes Maggie as being 'tall, with her hair done up in a wool turban. She had on trousers and a jersey and a short coat' - but it doesnt mention a tie, as shown in the picture, so that must be Eileen Soper's invention.

[Fatty]

My 1968 Knight edition (reprinted 1978) describes Maggie thus: "She was wearing trousers and had a jacket draped around her shoulders. She was also wearing sunglasses and smoking a cigarette." I suppose the wool turban was dropped because by 1968 it didn't have quite the disreputable effect that a pair of sunglasses, trousers and a cigarette could impart.

[pete9012S]

I wonder how much latitude both Eileen & Betty were allowed with their illustrations?......
Did they actually both read the books I wonder?....

I used to spend hours and hours when I was little getting all my Famous Five books out to compare the same illustrations by the two ladies in the different editions.
I would look first for similarities and then differences in the illustrations both ladies had provided for the same scene!...........
Then as we are discussing I would search for little things in the illustration that didnt fit the text!
anyone else do that or was it just me!

Regards

Pete

[Rob Houghton]

My 1968 Knight edition (reprinted 1978) describes Maggie thus: "She was wearing trousers and had a jacket draped around her shoulders. She was also wearing sunglasses and smoking a cigarette." I suppose the wool turban was dropped because by 1968 it didn't have quite the disreputable effect that a pair of sunglasses, trousers and a cigarette could impart.

Funny how they should choose to describe Maggie as smoking a cigarette, almost as if to make her a much more 'obvious' villain than in the original book. Its still the same in the 'centenary' editions of 1997.

[Anita Bensoussane]

On page 125 (first edition) Enid describes Maggie as being 'tall, with her hair done up in a wool turban. She had on trousers and a jersey and a short coat' - but it doesnt mention a tie, as shown in the picture, so that must be Eileen Soper's invention.

My 1968 Knight edition (reprinted 1978) describes Maggie thus: "She was wearing trousers and had a jacket draped around her shoulders. She was also wearing sunglasses and smoking a cigarette." I suppose the wool turban was dropped because by 1968 it didn't have quite the disreputable effect that a pair of sunglasses, trousers and a cigarette could impart.

I always feel sorry to read about changes like that. My copies of the Famous Five books are the revised ones (Knight paperbacks dating from the late 1960s-1970s) and I'd never heard until now that Maggie originally wore a turban. To erase details like that is to lose some of the colour and period flavour. A similar thing was done to the Secret Seven books when they too went into Knight paperback versions. Overcoats became "anoraks," for example, though such alterations weren't made consistently. As a child I felt that the Adventure, Find-Outers, Barney and Secret series had a special atmosphere but that the Famous Five and Secret Seven series lacked something. I couldn't quite put my finger on it but I'm wondering now whether it might have been the fact that the Famous Five and Secret Seven books I read had been updated.

I used to spend hours and hours when I was little getting all my Famous Five books out to compare the same illustrations by the two ladies [Eileen Soper and Betty Maxey] in the different editions.
I would look first for similarities and then differences in the illustrations both ladies had provided for the same scene!

I only had one copy of each book so I couldn't compare how the two illustrated the same story but it's something I might well have done if I'd had the chance! Most of my paperbacks had Betty Maxey pictures but a few were illustrated by Eileen Soper. I did vaguely wonder why, but it didn't bother me too much. After all, the Secret and Find-Outers titles had several different illustrators.

Then as we are discussing I would search for little things in the illustration that didnt fit the text! Anyone else do that or was it just me!

I used to do that all the time. As a child I formed a detective club with my sister and two friends, which later became a Book Lovers' Club (because mysteries were pretty thin on the ground where we lived and we weren't allowed to go much further than three or four blocks away anyway!) In our club we used to discuss books we'd read, design things like jigsaws and bookmarks inspired by our reading (I made a jigsaw based on a Mary Gernat cover for a Dragon edition of The Mystery of the Missing Man) and write and illustrate our own stories and poems. One of the things we did was compile a list of errors in books, including mistakes in the illustrations. I still remember that Derek Lucas (Secret Seven illustrator, Knight paperbacks) was on our list because he showed Janet writing a note with her mouth firmly closed, when Enid Blyton stated quite clearly in the text that Janet always stuck her tongue out while writing. We used to pay a few pence each at meetings and take it in turns to buy a book when there were sufficient funds in the kitty, and sometimes we'd have feasts with goodies like ginger-beer, macaroons and bull's-eyes, which we'd read about in books.

[Moonraker]

My copies of the Famous Five books are the revised ones (Knight paperbacks dating from the late 1960s-1970s)

I am amazed that an icon such as you definitely are, doesn't have a set of original H&S copies!

Then as we are discussing I would search for little things in the illustration that didnt fit the text! Anyone else do that or was it just me!

Me too - and I still do! It really annoys me when the text and illustration don't marry up.

[Anita Bensoussane]

My copies of the Famous Five books are the revised ones (Knight paperbacks dating from the late 1960s-1970s)...

I am amazed that an icon such as you definitely are, doesn't have a set of original H&S copies!

Don't know about being an icon but I was tempted by half a dozen or so H&S Famous Fives, minus dustwrappers, priced at £3.00 each at this year's EB Day. Unfortunately, I simply don't have the space to collect a second set of Fives (hardbacks take up a lot of room and I couldn't bear to part with my childhood paperbacks so I'd have to keep those too!)