What do you think about the fagging custom at St. Clare's?

[loveenidblyton]

Hi guys! Though SC is one of my favorite Enid Blyton series, yet I do not like one thing about it. The fagging custom prevalent there. If the matters had been confined to making tea alone, I would be just OK with it. But they are not! The first and second formers cleaned the shoes of their seniors AND THEY HAD TO RUSH TO THEIR STUDIES WHENEVER THEY WERE CALLED! I don`t know about anyone else, but my self-respect would be seriously injured if I had to do such things as cleaning boots and scrubbing floors. Especially when my parents are spending such a lot of money on my education. I fail to see how it teaches the younger girls responsibility. Do tell me your thoughts and feel free to criticize me if you think I am wrong. Only do not be mean!

[Tony Summerfield]

I'm afraid that's the way that both boys and girls boarding schools were at that time and it would have been unrealistic if Enid had written it differently. Cleaning shoes would have been one of the more pleasant jobs!

[loveenidblyton]

Then what would be the unpleasant ones?

[Rob Houghton]

I think the whole point was that you lost your 'self respect' - you were meant to realise that the seniors were superior to you!

[loveenidblyton]

I think I would rather keep mine. Even Ms.Theobald must have encouraged this practice!

[Tony Summerfield]

Then what would be the unpleasant ones?

You had both personal fagging and general fagging, and for the latter all the cleaning was done by the younger children - shoes were a doddle alongside the lavatories!!

[loveenidblyton]

Lavatories, seriously? Even the girls did that? Well, I guess you are right, shoes are a doddle.

[Daisy]

I'm glad Enid didn't go into more details! Am I right that it is only in the St Clare's series that fagging is mentioned? I don't recall it at Malory Towers. What about Whyteleafe? It's a while since I read that series.

[Tony Summerfield]

I can't answer for St. Clare's or even girls schools in general, but in boys' boarding schools there were no domestic staff except on the catering side, and all the discipline was in the hands of the senior boys. The staff simply looked after the academic side of things. In the 40s and 50s life was fairly similar to what you see if you watch Tom Brown's Schooldays!

[loveenidblyton]

yes, me too. And no, no other Enid Blyton book has any fagging mentioned in it. Looks like I WILL have to watch Tom Brown`s schooldays!

[Rob Houghton]

I know at our secondary school, if you were very unlucky, first years got their heads 'flushed down the toilet' by older pupils. I guess these days that would be called bullying, but it was more of an 'initiation' in the 1980's!

[loveenidblyton]

Well, that sure was horrid!

[Machupicchu14]

I know at our secondary school, if you were very unlucky, first years got their heads 'flushed down the toilet' by older pupils. I guess these days that would be called bullying, but it was more of an 'initiation' in the 1980's!

God! I don't think education would have been a very nice thing in older schools. Seriously, by watching movies and books about old boys' and girls' schools, you get a very bad impression. (I don't think I should tell the stories I was told) Although, I don't think any Enid Blyton school was like that, more like the perfect one

[MJE]

Hi guys! Though SC is one of my favorite Enid Blyton series, yet I do not like one thing about it. The fagging custom prevalent there.

     I entirely agree with your views about boarding schools (many of which I snipped). But I find lots of fiction - probably most, in fact - contains things I personally don't approve of or like; yet I may still think it is top-class as fiction, as a story.
     I think it is always a mistake to confuse the actions or morals attributed to fictional characters with the supposed morals of the author: an author depicting someone doing something bad or despicable does *not* mean the author also approves of it. It may be indeed the very opposite: they may despise and hate the behaviour and want to show it up for what it is in a very vivid fashion through their fiction; or it may be in between: the author is showing no view, but the plot requires it. I often find that criticism of books which seems unjustified is often based on this fallacy.
     I wonder if this fagging business has been toned down in modern editions of the books (I wouldn't know - I don't read post-1970 editions of Enid Blyton, with rare exceptions). The St. Clare's books are very funny at times, amongst the funniest of Enid Blyton's books, and in at least one case this is directly related to fagging. (Think anchovy paste and boot polish! Hilarious!)
     Bullying is hateful, and I was much subjected to it for years, especially in junior school, and it is possible I was damaged by it in ways that may still have their marks on me. I do not agree in the least with the once-prevalent view that regarded bullying as "boys growing into men", or as boys learning to sort out their own differences, or as just a natural part of their development. (Sorting out differences: if you visualize a typical bully (or gang of bullies) and an often lone bullying victim - can you really imagine the latter negotiating his differences with the bullies and getting anywhere? I found out the truth on that from hard, brutal experience.)
     So if you disapprove of fagging, I assume you probably disapprove of bullying, too - another common feature of school life. So I am probably with you on that too, as a real-life issue.  Yet I would not quibble in the slightest with any school story that featured bullying, and played that theme to the hilt, and included characters who approve of it.
     Actually, on a more moderate but more all-embracing level, there is much about the ethos and culture and life-style of boarding schools that I don't really like, to the extent that I consider boarding schools generally to be an unfavourable environment for impressionable children to do much of their development in. Yet that doesn't stop me enjoying the school stories, which are, in many ways, quite engrossing human drama.

Do tell me your thoughts and feel free to criticize me if you think I am wrong. Only do not be mean!

     In real life, as an issue that affects real people, I entirely agree with your view; I could hardly agree more, in fact.
     Yet I think it is perfectly valid for fiction to explore these issues, including the presenting of it as if it is commonly accepted, which apparently it was at one time, if not so much now. If you also think it wrong for these stories to include themes like this, then I would have to disagree with you on that.
     But being mean to you about it is the very last thing I would want to do!

Regards, Michael.

[MJE]

I think the whole point was that you lost your 'self respect' - you were meant to realise that the seniors were superior to you! 8)

     Which of course they aren't, by any reasonable objective measure. It seems to be based on breaking one's spirit, then rebuilding it in the mould of the school culture - quite close to what some dictatorships do, when you come down to it.
     So I am in pretty thorough agreement with the original poster's view. But I still insist it is perfectly valid for fiction to explore it, including having characters treat the practice as acceptable and right. And it does not in the least detract from a novel as a work of fiction. Novels would be unutterably, intolerably dull if you could never include things you don't personally approve of.

Regards, Michael.