Golliwogs/Gollies

The books! Over seven hundred of them and still counting...
User avatar
Daisy
Posts: 16632
Joined: 28 Oct 2006, 22:49
Favourite book/series: Find-Outers, Adventure series.
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Daisy »

We watched it Viv - some interesting points were made and some interesting people interviewed! I am glad I am not young these days. I feel that the world is more puzzling than when I was the age of the youngsters speaking on the programme tonight.
'Tis loving and giving that makes life worth living.

Society Member
User avatar
sixret
Posts: 4130
Joined: 16 Aug 2006, 14:25
Favourite book/series: Five Find-Outers,Mr.Twiddle,Barney R
Favourite character: Mr.Twiddle,Fatty,Saucepan,Snubby

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by sixret »

I like your comment, Daisy! Words of wisdom. :D
I stand with justice and the truth. Palestine will be free from the river to the sea.

Learn the history. Do research.

The hypocrisy, double standard, prejudice and bigotry own by some people is so obvious.Shame on them!
Viv of Ginger Pop
Posts: 2902
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 04:56
Favourite character: LEAST liked - Wilfred (FF 20)
Location: Dorset
Contact:

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Viv of Ginger Pop »

Daisy wrote:We watched it Viv - some interesting points were made and some interesting people interviewed! I am glad I am not young these days. I feel that the world is more puzzling than when I was the age of the youngsters speaking on the programme tonight.
For utter confusion try this!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho&app=desktop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Ginger Pop Shop closed in Feb 2017
User avatar
Courtenay
Posts: 19274
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
Favourite character: Lotta
Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Courtenay »

Just sharing this out of interest, though I can't get there myself before the closing date — the National Trust Museum of Childhood, at Sudbury Hall in Derbyshire, is currently doing an exhibition on "Black Dolls — The Power of Representation". It sounds very interesting and of course it features golliwogs, with, it seems, the arguments for and against them presented in a balanced way. Good to see this webpage, at least, making positive statements about Enid Blyton's portrayals of golliwogs — including a prominent quote from Tony Summerfield! :wink:
Society Member

It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
User avatar
Daisy
Posts: 16632
Joined: 28 Oct 2006, 22:49
Favourite book/series: Find-Outers, Adventure series.
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Daisy »

My husband saw this last Wednesday - I've just asked him about it. He was quite impressed.
'Tis loving and giving that makes life worth living.

Society Member
User avatar
Lucky Star
Posts: 11485
Joined: 28 May 2006, 12:59
Favourite book/series: The Valley of Adventure
Favourite character: Mr Goon
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Lucky Star »

Looks very good. Great to see a quote from Tony on their site. A pity it's too far for me to go and see.
"What a lot of trouble one avoids if one refuses to have anything to do with the common herd. To have no job, to devote ones life to literature, is the most wonderful thing in the world. - Cicero

Society Member
Viv of Ginger Pop
Posts: 2902
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 04:56
Favourite character: LEAST liked - Wilfred (FF 20)
Location: Dorset
Contact:

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Viv of Ginger Pop »

I've been looking through The Three Golliwoggs and got wondering about the song they sung in chapter 4, which is 10 little nigger boys.

The American song is horrific, about the different way they die.

Am I right in remembering a different version, a bit like Ten little Indians, which is a counting song. I really don't remember the horrid version as a kid, but I did know the title.

Any thoughts?

Viv
The Ginger Pop Shop closed in Feb 2017
Judith Crabb
Posts: 402
Joined: 05 Aug 2019, 05:32
Favourite book/series: Boys' and Girls' Circus Book/Adventure Series
Location: South Australia

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Judith Crabb »

My copies, Viv, an Australian edition of 1950 and the Dean 1969 edition, have no song in Chapter four (or anywhere else) so maybe it was edited out early on? I vaguely remember the rhyme. In the 1950s a lot of fairy tales were still published without the later sanitising so I'm not surprised if earlier editions of 'The Three Golliwogs' were unbowdlerised. (I'm assuming your edition is an old one.)
Society Member
Viv of Ginger Pop
Posts: 2902
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 04:56
Favourite character: LEAST liked - Wilfred (FF 20)
Location: Dorset
Contact:

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Viv of Ginger Pop »

Tomorrow is World Book Day. Please would anyone who does social media share this

Bring back Golly!
Before they went for Roald Dahl they went for Enid Blyton. The Noddy books only became racist when the good golliwogs were replaced by monkeys!
Learn more about the forgotten history of the Golliwogg on the Ginger Pop Shop’s YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_L5jt ... coiB_i-iMA

#bringbackgolly
#freedomofspeech
The Ginger Pop Shop closed in Feb 2017
User avatar
Lucky Star
Posts: 11485
Joined: 28 May 2006, 12:59
Favourite book/series: The Valley of Adventure
Favourite character: Mr Goon
Location: Surrey, UK

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Lucky Star »

Split off from 'General Natter Room' and merged.


Also from the BBC. How unutterably ludicrous is this? Five police officers to remove some Gollies? The world has officially lost it now. :(

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-65260945
"What a lot of trouble one avoids if one refuses to have anything to do with the common herd. To have no job, to devote ones life to literature, is the most wonderful thing in the world. - Cicero

Society Member
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26768
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Golly! I can't understand why that was done when gollies are on sale perfectly legally in gift shops and on market stalls throughout the UK, including Essex.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
User avatar
Courtenay
Posts: 19274
Joined: 07 Feb 2014, 01:22
Favourite book/series: The Adventure Series, Galliano's Circus
Favourite character: Lotta
Location: Both Aussie and British; living in Cheshire

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Courtenay »

Not only is that utterly ludicrous, but sloppy reporting on the part of the BBC. "The dolls are based on 18C minstrels and are regarded as racist caricatures"... by whom?? If they'd said "are regarded by some as racist caricatures", or even "by many" (whether or not it is "many", I don't know), that sentence would make sense. But clearly enough from the article, which states the pub had "received more support than abuse", not everyone who walked in there found the golliwogs offensive.

I can understand why golliwogs are controversial, but as our friend Viv's famous documentary abundantly shows, there is FAR more to their history than the seems-to-be-now-official standpoint of This Is An Evil Racist Offensive Object, and it would do people (of any skin colour or heritage) some good to learn about the whole back story of golliwogs before deciding they must be a symbol of hate... :shock: :mad: :roll:

On a happier note though, that is wonderful news about all the donations pouring in to support the lady whose allotment was attacked with salt. I'm sure there's plenty more goodness and kindness going on that doesn't get reported amid all the doom-and-gloom stories.
Society Member

It was a nuisance. An adventure was one thing - but an adventure without anything to eat was quite another thing. That wouldn't do at all. (The Valley of Adventure)
Viv of Ginger Pop
Posts: 2902
Joined: 11 Jul 2005, 04:56
Favourite character: LEAST liked - Wilfred (FF 20)
Location: Dorset
Contact:

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Viv of Ginger Pop »

Thanks Courtenay.

For those who haven't seen my video, here is the link. If you like it, please share!

Video link
https://youtu.be/oBoQ0hyytXg
The Ginger Pop Shop closed in Feb 2017
User avatar
Moonraker
Posts: 22387
Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 19:15
Location: Wiltshire, England
Contact:

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Moonraker »

The Golliwog was created during a racist era. He was drawn as a caricature of a minstrel -- which itself represented a demeaning image of blacks. There is racial stereotyping of black people in Florence Upton's books, including The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls -- such as the black minstrel playing a banjo


Read the full article here

Whatever our personal feelings about our old friend the Golly may be, it should be noted that times change, and what was a once-loved toy seems to be considered racist by the majority of people now.
Society Member
User avatar
Anita Bensoussane
Forum Administrator
Posts: 26768
Joined: 30 Jan 2005, 23:25
Favourite book/series: Adventure series, Six Cousins books, Six Bad Boys
Favourite character: Jack Trent, Fatty and Elizabeth Allen
Location: UK

Re: Golliwogs/Gollies

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It's always interesting to hear varying views, but saying that the Golliwogg in The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a "Golliwogg" (written in 1894 before being published in 1895) is "drawn as a caricature of a minstrel" (Ferris State University article) is over-simplistic. The reality is rather more complex.

As the article says, Florence Kate Upton based the Golliwogg in the book illustrations upon her own childhood doll - although it was her mother, Bertha Upton, who wrote the text. The name "Golliwogg" may have been inspired by the word "polliwog"/"pollywog" (another name for a tadpole) and the word "dolly", and it didn't have any negative connotations.

The Golliwogg is actually differentiated from two other black dolls in the story. One is a minstrel doll called Sambo, who plays a banjo while singing a song. The other is "a jovial African" - a black doll dressed in a striped robe/dress. That means the Golliwogg himself is neither a minstrel doll nor a black African doll, but an entity in his own right. He's introduced as "the blackest gnome", but that may be a metaphor.

In discussions about the book, nothing is ever said about the Dutch dolls trying to "kill" a white doll (a Jack-in-the-box), or about the (unusual for the period) insistence on equality between the sexes when throwing snowballs:

"Vengeance!" he cries, "I'll pay them out!
If girls will play with boys,
There's got to be
Equality,
So here's for equipoise!"

The Adventures of Two Dutch Dolls and a "Golliwogg" is interesting for many reasons, and it's a pity that all the discussion focuses on the portrayal of the Golliwogg rather than on the book as a whole. It can be read online here:

https://gutenberg.org/files/16770/16770-h/16770-h.htm

As for Enid Blyton, she explained that she viewed golliwogs as beloved nursery toys, just like teddy bears - and that she had good and bad gollies in her stories, just as she had good and bad teddies. My sister and I asked for gollies for Christmas in the mid 1970s because we loved them so much from books and TV programmes. At the time they were readily available from high street shops and catalogues, and our parents were more than happy to buy us each a golly. We were oblivious of any controversy surrounding the dolls. The first time I heard any criticism of them was in a newspaper article in the late 1980s which discussed the proposed removal of gollies from Enid Blyton's Noddy books.

I've loved gollies all my life but I accept that others have a different opinion. However, it does seem from the BBC article that the gollies had already been in the pub for almost ten years before anyone complained.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


Society Member
Post Reply