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Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 12 Nov 2017, 14:32
by pete9012S
Timothy's first Soper appearance
Timmy’s Total Appearances including all variations of his name in each book:
Interesting to compare which books he figures least and most in!
Please feel free to check my totals as I'm sure to have made at least a couple of mistakes.
Five on a Treasure Island Timmy 0 Timothy 40 Tim 155 = 235
Five Go Adventuring Again Timmy 47 Timothy 119 Tim 161 = 327
Five Run Away Together Timmy 152 Timothy 82 Tim 20 = 254
Five Go to Smuggler's Top Timmy 296 Timothy 3 Tim 16 = 315
Five Go Off in a Caravan Timmy 248 Timothy 3 Tim 10 = 261
Five on Kirrin Island Again Timmy 337 Timothy 1 Tim 20 = 358
Five Go Off to Camp Timmy 205 Timothy 0 Tim 5 = 210
Five Get Into Trouble Timmy 204 Timothy 1 Tim 6 = 211
Five Fall Into Adventure Timmy 242 Timothy 1 Tim 10 = 253
Five on a Hike Together Timmy 217 Timothy 0 Tim 22 = 239
Five Have a Wonderful Time Timmy 176 Timothy 0 Tim 3 = 179
Five Go Down to the Sea Timmy 179 Timothy 0 Tim 10 = 189
Five Go to Mystery Moor Timmy 240 Timothy 0 Tim 27 = 267
Five Have Plenty of Fun Timmy 248 Timothy 0 Tim 25 = 273
Five on a Secret Trail Timmy 275 Timothy 0 Tim 30 = 305
Five Go to Billycock Hill Timmy 210 Timothy 1 Tim 32 = 243
Five Get Into a Fix Timmy 208 Timothy 0 Tim 48 = 256
Five on Finniston Farm Timmy 147 Timothy 0 Tim 23 = 170
Five Go to Demon's Rocks Timmy 162 Timothy 0 Tim 11 = 173
Five Have a Mystery to Solve Timmy 302 Timothy 0 Tim 32 = 334
Five Are Together Again Timmy 164 Timothy 0 Tim 7 = 171
The Famous Five Short Story Collection Timmy 304 Timothy 0 Tim 47 = 351
Timmy as depicted in the very last Famous Five book.
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 15 Nov 2017, 22:09
by IceMaiden
He's altered a bit hasn't he?
Timmy is far less shaggy coated in the first book than the other ones, from Adventuring Again onwards he's depicted as a big hairy dog with a long plumy tail. I wonder why? Is it because it was decided in the first book illustrations he wasn't fluffy looking enough? Or maybe Tim was meant to be only a year or two old in that book and hadn't yet grown a full coat?
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 02:09
by GloomyGraham
Tim needs a trim
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 09:32
by pete9012S
Timothy's first appearance as imagined by Betty Maxey - even as a bit of a Maxey fancier, I don't think it's the best illustration of Timothy I've ever seen..
Timmy in the much later book 'Demon's Rocks'...
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 12:50
by Rob Houghton
I must admit, though I quite like Maxey's cover illustrations, her depiction of Timmy isn't as I imagine him to be. I tend to see him as Soper depicted him these days, but as a child, and up until I was in my 20's, Timmy definitely looked like this -
It took me ages to get used to Eileen Soper's depiction, as to me he was a border Collie.
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 16 Nov 2017, 13:39
by pete9012S
Great pic Rob.
A classic pic of George and Tim by Eileen Soper
Betty Maxey's take on the same scene..
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 19 Nov 2017, 22:23
by IceMaiden
The main problem I have with Maxey's depiction of Timmy is that he is short haired like a labrador, when he isn't like that
. There is an old lady around here who has got a dog that looks exactly how BM has drawn Timmy, it is not at all a dog that matches the Timmy description of the books.
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 09:08
by pete9012S
Yes, I agree. We have a labrador and he looks just like Tim!
Wonder if Betty had the same type of dog?
Although absolutely marvelous,Betty is not 100% perfect!
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 11:42
by Moonraker
Blimey, Pete: do you have too much time on your hands?
There seems to be an inverted snobberry regarding Maxey. A bit like the people who say, "I don't rate the Beatles much. I much prefer The Merseybeats."
Maxey was an inferior illustrator and bears no comparison to the doyen of FF illustrations, Eileen Soper.
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 16:59
by Rob Houghton
"Secretly, Nigel had a big thing for Betty Maxey..."
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 18:19
by Courtenay
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 20:22
by John Pickup
Moonraker wrote:
Maxey was an inferior illustrator and bears no comparison to the doyen of FF illustrations, Eileen Soper.
Yeah! Rock on Nigel. You tell 'em.
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 20 Nov 2017, 21:17
by pete9012S
Moonraker wrote: ...the doyen of FF illustrations, Eileen Soper.
..
It seems
'the doyen' was rested from around 1970 to 1997 in many editions of the Famous Five books..
This rather bizarre treatment of
'the doyen' - rested for 27 years - allowed lesser illustrators/pretenders to take a place in the hearts of some of the discerning 1960's & 1970's & possibly 1980's generation.
Sure, Eileen Soper wore the Hodder Crown in the early days, but as seen in the above listings, from 1967 to 1987 there was a new Knight on the block...
The antipathy seems one way - many Maxey fans are egalitarian, friendly and definitely appreciate Soper as well as Maxey - but this mutual appreciation is rarely reciprocated by the more sophisticated,experienced, enlightened, cosmopolitan and knowledgeable fans of
'the doyen'...
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 00:31
by Courtenay
Shouldn't that be
doyenne?
(I know it's politically incorrect to use gendered nouns nowadays in English, but doyen / doyenne is French and all their nouns are gendered...)
Re: Timmy - Timothy - Tim in the Books?
Posted: 21 Nov 2017, 01:17
by pete9012S
Eileen Soper does a very good job of showing just how protective and savage Timmy could be..
‘He’s mad - angry - he’s savage. Look out Mark!’
Markhoff was looking out! He was terrified. He clambered up another few feet, and then found that Timmy was making runs at the cliff to try and get up after his unprotected doyen. He went up a bit further and clung to the rope with one hand, afraid of falling and being pounced on by the furious Timmy.
