Julian - What do you think of him?

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Machupicchu14
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Machupicchu14 »

That was a great first post db105! I really enjoyed reading it and I can see you really admire Julian.
I have always liked Julian as a character, and wished I could have a cousin like him.
Being the older, he has to be responsible for the others and I don't think he is too over protective. He is is also more mature than others and therefore knows how to handle situations better.
I never find Julian is bossy, he just knows what to do. And that doesn't mean he's bossy. The part I don't like about Julian and Dick, is the way they leave the girls behind during exciting parts, and never did the stuff Anne was always supposed to do. But that is how it was at the time, so I guess it isn't their fault. It's just Julian feels a bit too superior because he was a boy.

Apart from that, I love the way he is kind and sweet towards other people and helpful with those who need it. :D
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by db105 »

I completely agree, Machupicchu14. When I read these books as a child I admired how Julian, even though he was still a boy and he liked the activities that seem fun to children, was able to talk to adults on an equal footing and even confront them when necessary. That's something I would have been completely incapable of doing at that time, and therefore I liked to imagine Julian as a big brother who was able to play with me but was also able to be effective in the adult world when necessary.

George was also brave enough to confront adults, but she did so in a less mature manner, by being obstinate and sulky when she felt she was being treated unfairly. That was something that I could identify with, and I liked her for that, but at the same time I understood that it was a less effective way of dealing with adults. Julian could talk like a young adult when necessary, and therefore adults tended to take him seriously, while George acted like a strong-willed child. So I liked George, but I looked up to Julian. At that age, I would have happily followed his lead, and that's why it doesn't bother me that he takes that leading role in the books.

Machupicchu14 wrote:The part I don't like about Julian and Dick, is the way they leave the girls behind during exciting parts, and never did the stuff Anne was always supposed to do. But that is how it was at the time, so I guess it isn't their fault. It's just Julian feels a bit too superior because he was a boy.
Yes, agreed too. No way any of that would happen if Blyton was writing now, but these stories, atemporal as they are in some respects, are still a product of their time. That has a good side, because they have a charm and a character that modern writers can't quite replicate, but they also have that downside.
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Deej92 »

Machupicchu14 wrote: The part I don't like about Julian and Dick, is the way they leave the girls behind during exciting parts, and never did the stuff Anne was always supposed to do. But that is how it was at the time, so I guess it isn't their fault. It's just Julian feels a bit too superior because he was a boy.
I don't like that either, although this is even more noticeable in the Secret Seven series where the girls are left out of most of the 'dangerous' parts of the adventures. Like you say, this is how it was during the time period - boys were expected to look out for girls to make sure they were safe. I don't think it was necessarily the fact they thought they were superior.
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Rob Houghton »

I think even in the 1970's boys tended to believe they were 'superior' to girls...inasmuch that boys were thought of to be stronger, more daring, less feeble. It wasn't done in a nasty way - just the way things were - even when I was a child, this was still 'the norm' and as a child I never really noticed that the girls were left out of adventures.

Attitudes have changed so much for the better over the last thirty years or so - back in the 1970's it wasn't looked on as at all strange that girls were left out of the adventures - girls might be scared, might cry, couldn't run as fast, couldn't climb very well, might give things away - that was the common belief. It was all mostly rubbish, of course - and George proves it - but that WAS how people saw things even when I was young. 8)

It can be summed up by the common erroneous expression 'he runs like a girl' - which was an insult that was widely used. What exactly does 'runs like a girl' mean? Like Jessica Ennis? 8)
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Moonraker »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:A fair and considered assessment of Julian, which I thoroughly enjoyed reading. As you say, it's important to take the social context into account.

What a great first post! Welcome to the forums. :D
A long post which I thoroughly enjoyed! Welcome to the forums, db105! :D
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by db105 »

Thanks everyone for the kind welcome! :) When I started rereading Five on a Treasure Island I did not expect to enjoy it so much, and it's nice to be able to talk about the books with so many good fans here.
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by sixret »

A very good posts, db105! Welcome to the forum! :D

Could it also be the fact that Julian matures slightly later than George? Most of the times(not always), I dislike George's lack of conformity to the majority's decision/opinion. Headstrong attitude/opinion is not always good as sometimes obstinacy could cause catastrophe. She could not always see the reason. Julian is very level- headed kind of person. This type of person is usually sensible, reasonable and always consider "what if" in every situation i.e. precaution! Since I was young, I have not warm to George's character. I admit her character is unique but I long to give her a slap! She could be tomboy for all I care, but I despise her sulkiness and moody temperament and stupidity! :twisted: :twisted: :evil:

As much as George is freely to be a tomboy, Anne is also entitled to be free as a girly girl who likes cooking or any household chores. There's nothing wrong with that! :D
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Rob Houghton »

Moonraker wrote:
A long post which I thoroughly enjoyed! :D
Thought you didn't like 'long posts'...? :mrgreen: :P
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by db105 »

sixret wrote:Most of the times(not always), I dislike George's lack of conformity to the majority's decision/opinion. Headstrong attitude/opinion is not always good as sometimes obstinacy could cause catastrophe. She could not always see the reason. Julian is very level- headed kind of person. This type of person is usually sensible, reasonable and always consider "what if" in every situation i.e. precaution! Since I was young, I have not warm to George's character. I admit her character is unique but I long to give her a slap! She could be tomboy for all I care, but I despise her sulkiness and moody temperament and stupidity! :twisted: :twisted: :evil:
Well, it's true that George is difficult and sometimes moody, but I like her a lot. She is generous, strong-willed, sincere, brave and loyal. She often notices her faults and she makes an effort to improve. As a character she is really interesting, too. There's never a dull moment when she is involved. She can do something impulsive and unexpected at any time. The dynamic of the group is better for having such contrasting characters sin it, and we can like both.
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Rob Houghton »

I really like George as a character. She's interesting, loyal, brave, petulant, obstinate - all sorts of things - more than any other character Enid created. While I see Julian as a bit of a 'goody-goody' George is in some ways an anti-hero - and that's what makes her so strong. She's not such a paragon as Julian.
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by db105 »

Also, she is the most complex character of the group. This is not necessarily the same as likable, but the group would be much less interesting without her. She's a really well-designed character too. Many things about her ring true to me. She seems very real and full of personality.
Last edited by db105 on 17 Jan 2017, 18:56, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by sixret »

Everyone has good and bad qualities. There's neither white nor black. It's always white and black. I like George as a character(that is as a fictional character). I like her strong will, determination and bravery. The best quality George has is her loyalty. But I despise her obstinacy even though she well knows it that in some cases, her obstinacy will cause difficulty to others. I call it selfishness and stupidity on her part. In reality, I despise person who are determined to defend his/her own stupidity. It's a strong will but for a wrong reason. In other word, he/she is in denial.

In reality, I prefer people who are level-headed, warm, cool(paradox isn't it), sensible, reasonable, funny(definitely not her forte!), not always making a sweeping judgment(minus point for George in this regard), people who don't make a rash decision or wild presumption just for the sake of following their instinct to the detriment of others! All those qualities that some will label as "goody-goody"! But those qualities are usually possessed by upstanding people! I don't like some of her dispositions is because I also have that similar strong will and stubornness inside me especially when I was young.

I guess, we are always being attracted to fictional characters that have total opposite in temperament from us. Those characters represent what we want to be, not what we are. I am very sure, I would have a massive clash of personalities between me and George because of our strong will. In fact, I would have slapped her real hard or worse! :x :x :x
Last edited by sixret on 17 Jan 2017, 18:59, edited 1 time in total.
I stand with justice and the truth. Palestine will be free from the river to the sea.

Learn the history. Do research.

The hypocrisy, double standard, prejudice and bigotry own by some people is so obvious.Shame on them!
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by sixret »

People are complex. Whether the character is complex or not depends on how well the author fleshes him/her out! :D
Last edited by sixret on 17 Jan 2017, 19:22, edited 1 time in total.
I stand with justice and the truth. Palestine will be free from the river to the sea.

Learn the history. Do research.

The hypocrisy, double standard, prejudice and bigotry own by some people is so obvious.Shame on them!
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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by Rob Houghton »

That's interesting, because it doesn't ring true for me. I like George, and yet we are very similar - especially regarding being stubborn. The one thing I don't do is sulk - I prefer an all-out row and get very frustrated with people who sulk and won't have it out with me.
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: Julian - What do you think of him?

Post by db105 »

sixret wrote:People are complex. Whether the character is complex or not is depend on how well the author fleshes him/her out! :D
Well... I think a characters are more complex, or seem more complex, if you prefer that way of saying it, when they have internal conflicts and contradictions. In Five Go Adventuring Again, for example, we have George being punished for her attitude towards their tutor, and as a result of that Tim is banished from the house in the cold weather. She doesn't care about being punished herself, but for Timmy's sake she swallows her pride, and we know how difficult that is for her, but she does it because her love for Tim is stronger than her pride and her stubbornness. Then, of course, we feel the injustice when Mr. Roland insists that the punishment should not be lifted in spite of George's change of attitude. It's a really interesting moment from an emotional point of view, and we can't have something similar with Julian. He would have behaved more properly in the first place, which is not something bad, but George is very interesting as a character. She has flaws, but her flaws are very real and relatable.
Last edited by db105 on 17 Jan 2017, 19:20, edited 1 time in total.
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“I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?”
― Stephen King, The Body
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