The Enid Blyton Society

     I don't recall the details - but the books are inconsistent on which parents are a sibling of which other parent - so we cannot conclusively state that the two fathers are brothers. So, whichever way you take it, there is a mistake in the books.
     The surname Barnard is given in the 17th book, "Five Get into a Fix" - just once or twice, in the first two or three chapters.
     If you want to insist the books contain no mistakes, and you want to reconcile everything down to the last detail, then you have to resort to bizarre theories such as Uncle Quentin agreeing to give up his name, etc. I don't find that in the least plausible or likely, and if we can accept that Enid Blyton sometimes made mistakes about details, we don't need to hypothesize about such things. (I've lost track of the number of convoluted theories I have read over the years trying to reconcile these matters relating to the surnames and the family tree.)
     Quentin gamble or take opium? I don't see that as in the least likely - doesn't at all fit his character.

Regards, Michael.

MJE wrote:      Quentin gamble or take opium? I don't see that as in the least likely - doesn't at all fit his character.

No more do I ! Any 'fortune' would soon dwindle. I wouldn't think UQ earned much, if anything. He spent his days shut away in his study, and I imagine he would only earn if his experiments produced investable results. Although I remember that he was going to 'give to the world for free' his greatest invention, free sustainable energy.

Moonraker wrote:Although I remember that he was going to 'give to the world for free' his greatest invention, free sustainable energy.

I bet if Enid Blyton wrote that now, the world would go recognize it as something plausible and interview her about her ideas for free sustainable energy. Critics would hail her as someone who was promoting sustainability!

MJE wrote:     I don't recall the details - but the books are inconsistent on which parents are a sibling of which other parent - so we cannot conclusively state that the two fathers are brothers. So, whichever way you take it, there is a mistake in the books.
  .

Hi Michael! Actually, on the page of the story it is clearly stated that Quentin, and 'Daddy' are brothers; I quote:

" " What about Quentin's ? " suddenly said Daddy. Quentin was his brother, the children's Uncle."

I think the problems come later when the location of Kirrin Bay, Kirrin Island, etc. are revealed to have been in Aunt Fanny's family for centuries, and given the name:

" " All that's left of what Mother's family owned is our own house, Kirrin Cottage, and a farm a little way of--and Kirrin Island, " said George. "

It strikes me as highly unlikely that her maiden name is also Kirrin - too much coincidence, so I suppose it's possible that Quentin took his wife's name when they married (but unlikely, I feel... not the 'normal' thing to do, and may have been frowned upon back in the 1940's!), but that would then make it entirely plausible for the children's family name to be Barnard.
However, I do really think the whole confusion is through a simple over-sight on Enid's part!!
Cheers,
Steve.

Could they be cousins, Fanny and Quentin?

Well that would certainly work....

Ming wrote:

Moonraker wrote:Although I remember that he was going to 'give to the world for free' his greatest invention, free sustainable energy.

I bet if Enid Blyton wrote that now, the world would go recognize it as something plausible and interview her about her ideas for free sustainable energy. Critics would hail her as someone who was promoting sustainability!

Maybe Enid was responsible for seeing into the future and foreseeing sustainable energy. Spitty it was a plastic tower on Kirrin Island and not a giant windmill!

Just coming in! I'm doing something for Stef and Fiona's blog (I will keep it secret(Fiona and Stef actually don't know about this part of it yet it's just part of an un-sent chapter)). It mentioned the Kirrin thing (though indirectly). In the piece, Aunt Fanny has had Kirrin ancestors but on the way down to her the name died. So they are very distantly related (Quentin and Fanny) but so are we. Here's a bit of it:

Aunt Fanny:I was hoping that George and her cousins wouldn't get it too, through my Kirrin ancestors.

Good example of using parentheses!

Hi everyone,

I've been doing a re-read of the Famous Fives over the last couple of weeks and I noticed that not only is Uncle Quentin brother to Julian, Dick and Anne's father (as already mentioned in this thread!), but Aunt Fanny is sister to their mum!

In Five Get Into Trouble, second page, Uncle Quentin says to Aunt Fanny:

'How can I possibly be expected to remember when the children's holidays come, and if they are going to be here with us or with your sister?'

Can't believe I never spotted this before, especially as I've been pondering the whole Kirrin surname/who is related to who business for about thirty years!

Well caught! Though it confuses things even further...

I think we may have had this discussion elsewhere. I do wonder sometimes why no one picked it up before it was published, especially as it was still quite early on in the series. Perhaps as it doesn't really seem to have any relevance to the plot it just slipped through unnoticed.

Maggie Knows wrote:Quentin and Julian's dad are brothers are they not? So Julian and Dick etc should be called Kirrin too. But isnt there surname given as Barnard or Bernard in one of the later books?

     Yes - twice in the early chapters of "Five Get Into a Fix". Others have pointed to a reference which indicates the two mothers are sisters as well as the two fathers being brothers. Possible - but somewhat unlikely, surely?
     And would this resolve the conflicting information? I have not quite retained in memory all the conflicting details, so I'm not sure if that would resolve it.
     Also, I seem to have a memory that one of the fathers and one of the mothers are also mentioned as being siblings - and that would surely mess things up if so. Does anyone definitely recall if this is mentioned?

yarvelling wrote:However, I do really think the whole confusion is through a simple over-sight on Enid's part!!

     Yes, so do I. I just wonder if it would simplify the whole problem if we just removed the two (I think only two) references to "Barnard" in "Five Get into a Fix", and replaced them with "Kirrin". I honestly don't know if that would resolve anything at all, actually, because my head tends to spin if I try to analyze this whole issue. ( I think it is starting to even now, as I try to select which bits of posts to quote and reply to - so please forgive any confusion that may come into this post.)
     Plenty of people have analyzed it in great depth, and it seems everyone comes up with a different, but equally convoluted, explanation - so I don't think it's going to ever be resolved. Really, I think it all stems just from one or more mistakes by Enid Blyton in one or more of the books.

Mrs Snubby wrote:[...] I've been pondering the whole Kirrin surname/who is related to who business for about thirty years! :o

     I haven't pondered it much at all. I don't think there is anything to ponder beyond the simple fact that Enid Blyton made a mistake somewhere or other.

Maggie Knows wrote:My theory is that Quentin agreed to give up his name in order to marry Fanny & get his hands on the Kirrin estate.

     Maybe this is just a joke - but, if taken on face value, I think most unlikely, for a couple of reasons. First, I simply don't think Quentin is mercenary in that sort of way - certainly not in such a blatant manner. Secondly, I can't imagine kind-hearted Fanny being so petty as to agree to let him into the estate but only conditionally upon him taking her surname. These hypotheses just totally jib with the character of both of them, in my opinion.

Maggie Knows wrote:By the time the first book starts Quentin's secret opium and gambling habits have reduced the family fortune to pennies, hence the need for the kids to find some gold....

     Yes, a joke, I think - this last bit about opium and gambling is so implausible to me that it must surely be a joke. (Okay, I admit I'm not always the best at detecting whether a statement is serious or intended as a joke.)

Regards, Michael.

No, the mothers being sisters would just further complicate things.

Aunt Fanny must be a Kirrin for her family to have owned Kirrin Cottage, Island, Farm etc. At the same time, Uncle Quentin is known to have the surname Kirrin too, and they've passed the name to George.

In the first book Julian's father says "my brother Quentin" and "I bumped into his wife", (not "your sister"), yet we are told that Julian's surname is Kirrin, so presumably both his parents are Kirrins too.

Even if Julian's mother was Aunt Fanny's sister, that would still mean that both the fathers were originally Kirrin too... which makes no sense. Perhaps Uncle Quentin was simply trying to distance himself from blame in the situation (the children technically being more related to him) and also meant to say "sister-in-law".

Merged with an older thread.

Hello, I am trying to get my head around how everyone (and an island!) is called Kirrin.

Is Uncle Quentin a Kirrin too? From how I understand the relationships and the naming of the Island Kirrin would have been Aunt Fanny's maiden name.