Was it Alzheimer's?

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pbsausie

Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by pbsausie »

I was wondering if anyone knew what type of dementia Enid developed

I was wondering if it was Alzheimers or some other type - did she have 'good' and 'bad' days - I ask because towards the end, those with Alzheimers have no 'good' days at all
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Alicia »

Yes, according to Wikipedia it was Alzheimers.
However, seeing as this is Wikipedia and anyone can edit it, I don't know if it's true or not.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It has been questioned whether or not Enid actually had Alzheimer's because there are letters (if I remember correctly) dating from her later years which are perfectly lucid. She certainly had some form of dementia, though.

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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Moonraker »

Yes, so I believe too, Anita. I have always thought she suffered with memory-loss - certainly a form of dementia, but not Alzheimer's Disease.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Green Hedges »

It's likely to have been Alzheimer's or vascular dementia as together they account for the majority of cases (60% and 20% respectively) of dementia. About 800,000 people are presently diagnosed in the UK.

Vascular dementia occurs following strokes and mini-strokes. That is where there are bleeds into the brain causing loss of mental function. Someone with vascular dementia declines in distinct phases. Alzheimers is a more progressive disintegration, a breaking down at the neurotransmitter level, though the progress can either be fast (over a few short years) or much slower.

It's strange that, as far as I'm aware, we don't know whether Enid's decline was in stages, as characteristic of vascular dementia, or progressive. This is partly because her second husband, Kenneth, protected her from the world and (by destroying diaries etc.) prevented information about failing Enid getting out of Green Hedges. Barbara Stoney's book tells us that Kenneth died in September 1967, by which time Enid's illness seems to have been well advanced. Enid was then looked after by Doris Cox, who had been at Green Hedges since 1945. She would be the best person to ask about Enid's dementia, though I forget off-hand if she's still in a position to answer questions. Gillian and Imogen were both married, with families, one in Yorkshire and the other in Sussex, so they might not have been able to observe their mother's decline in Bucks in sufficient detail to pass down information about it.

In her biography of Blyton, Barbara Stoney writes: 'Both daughters did what they could for their mother, but her illness grew progressively worse and some three months after being admitted to a Hampstead nursing home, she died peacefully in her sleep on 28 November 1968.' This use of the word "progressive" suggests Alzheimers, but we'd need more detail, say from Enid's medical notes. Not that even medical notes can be altogether trusted. My own mother's file at her care home says she suffers from vascular dementia and Alzheimer's. She does not. Her dementia is solely the result of strokes and has not got any worse since she stopped having mini-strokes a couple of years ago. My mother, as a relatively young woman, is mentioned near the beginning of Looking For Enid, where she helps me to take out Blyton books from our local library. Presently I'm writing about Mum's life with dementia, having been commissioned by Saga to do so. Anyone interested in what dementia does to the mind and body, and to the relationship between parent and child, might want to check out the following link:
http://www.saga.co.uk/health/carers/blo ... rchive.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps it's a pity that Enid didn't have someone on hand to record her thoughts and behaviour in detail in those last years. True, she had lost her capacity to write lucid books, but as her memory peeled off, sending her back into the idyllic days of her childhood, her fertile imagination and energetic mind would have been sure to have come out in fascinating and poignant ways.

In the final book in the Find Outers series, The Mystery of Banshee Towers, there is an extra character. Let's call her 'Dementia'. Dementia surely accounts for Superintendent Jenks being demoted to Inspector. Dementia no doubt accounts for Fatty being so slow on the uptake throughout. That sad book was published in August 1961. If Enid had written another FFO book I do believe Goon would have solved the mystery himself and had the last laugh on Enid's precious and beloved Fatty. Thank goodness that didn't happen.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Anne's Father »

Green Hedges wrote:
In the final book in the Find Outers series, The Mystery of Banshee Towers, there is an extra character. Let's call her 'Dementia'. Dementia surely accounts for Superintendent Jenks being demoted to Inspector. Dementia no doubt accounts for Fatty being so slow on the uptake throughout. That sad book was published in August 1961. If Enid had written another FFO book I do believe Goon would have solved the mystery himself and had the last laugh on Enid's precious and beloved Fatty. Thank goodness that didn't happen.
Continuity was not one of Ms Blyton's strong points throughout the series of books. In Five on a Treasure Island Anne's dad refers to Aunt Fanny as Quentin's wife implying he is Quentin's relation yet in a later book Quentin refers to her as Fanny's sister. Similar errors appear throughout which these days would have been corrected by the editor before publication. However i did a very simple calculation that in order to have produced 800 books in a 40 year career Blyton needed to write 1.6 books a month without taking any holidays or time off. Knocking books out at that rate will punish continuity without a good editor. Most writers today devote at least a year to one book AND have good editors. I have not read Banshee Towers but will soon as you have intreagued me!
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Enikyoga »

Green Hedges,

That Enid Blyton may have died of Alzheimer's is something that has been speculated upon for some time. In one of Matt's old and probably defunct websites, we were told that the official cause of death was some sort thrombosis. I do not remember what type of thrombosis that was mentioned. Maybe it could have been deep-vein thrombosis, I am not sure. If the sudden cause of Enid Blyton's death was some sort of thrombosis would be least surprising since people who die of certain types of thromboses oftentimes may have had heart problems. I recall in the course of writing my book that Enid Blyton had, had several heart problems, including one around 1958 in which Kenneth Darrell Waters, her second husband, downplayed the seriousness of her heart ailment, for fear of alarming their two daughters. In some thread, Tony said that he had read a letter Enid Blyton had written three months prior to being admitted in the nursing home and it was inconsistent with someone that had Alzheimer's or Dementia. I mention this debate in one of my end notes in my book. So speculation about the real cause of Enid Blyton's death continues unabated....
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Enikyoga »

pbsausie wrote:I was wondering if anyone knew what type of Dementia Enid developed

I was wondering if it was Alzheimers or some other type - did she have 'good' and 'bad' days - I ask because towards the end, those with Alzheimers have no 'good' days at all
Nicholas Tucker in one of his two articles that I cite in my book and bibliography, "All things Blyton " and "The Blyton enigma," (I am not sure which one-it is a long time since I read these articles), Enid Blyton is said to have told one of her daughters (presumably Gillian Baverstock) that she was always frightened of her mind being "blacked out". I understand people with Alzheimer's/Dementia often have these symptoms. In a couple of her books, (mind you she was in her prime during this time), she would satarize her mental problems by at times ascribing children to instances where they had short memory lapses or were in perpetual forms of being forgetful. For instance, in astory, "She Lost Her Memory," that appeared in Tales After Tea, a girl called Dolly Daydreams, would many a time forget her way to school and at times, even her own mother. In another instance of memory lapse, a story titled, "Fred's Forgettery," that appeared in A Story Party At Green Hedges whereby once-upon-a-time, there was a boy called Fred who had a very bad memory and who did not even bother remembering anything thus, had to pay a price for his immutable "forgetfulness." I guess while discussing this ailment in a related-thread, Anita argued that Fred's forgetfulness was ordinary. However, if one read the story more closely, you waould find that his forgetfulness was not that ordinary. Even Julian at times had memory problems, despite his tender age in some of The Famous Five books. Even P.C. Goon had memory lapses in adventures such as The Mystery Of The Spiteful Letters. In Five Go To Billycock Hill, Uncle Quentin would forget that he had tidied his own desk and would put a lot of his precious papers in the waste- paper basket. In Five Are Together Again, Professor Hayling too would be very forgetful, including not remembering that he had accepted to send the children to his house, a story that may have reflected Enid Blyton's forgetting who her own grandchildren were as her own daughter, the late Gillian Baverstock, told an interviewer during the Edinburgh book festival in 2006 . In all of these stories, Enid Blyton was writing about her own major mental problems as they progressed in her life. Thus, I feel, in hindsight,that Enid Blyton may have contributed to an understanding of Alzheimer's/Dementia if medical experts on this ailment may have read her books at the time, since they would have learnt a lot about how this disease progressed throughout one's lifetime.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Enikyoga wrote:In a couple of her books, (mind you she was in her prime during this time), she would satarize her mental problems by at times ascribing children to instances where they had short memory lapses or were in perpetual forms of being forgetful.
You've lost me there, I'm afraid, Stephen. :?
Enikyoga wrote:For instance, in astory, "She Lost Her Memory," that appeared in Tales After Tea, a girl called Dolly Daydreams, would many a time forget her way to school and at times, even her own mother. In another instance of memory lapse, a story titled, "Fred's Forgettery," that appeared in A Story Party At Green Hedges whereby once-upon-a-time, there was a boy called Fred who had a very bad memory and who did not even bother remembering anything thus, had to pay a price for his immutable "forgetfulness.! I guess while discussing this ailment in a related-thread, Anita argued that Fred's forgetfulness was ordinary. However, if one read the story more closely, you waould find that his forgetfulness was not that ordinary.
As I've said before, I think it's stretching things to suggest that the story 'Fred's Forgettery' (which first appeared in Sunny Stories in 1943 when Enid Blyton was in her mid-forties and in good health) has anything to do with dementia or Alzheimer's. We're told that Fred is lazy and doesn't make any attempt to try to remember things and that he has only himself to blame when he and the other children at his school miss out on a treat (free tickets to Mr. Phillippino's Circus!) because Fred forgot to post a letter. As for Dolly Daydreams (wonderful name!), her memory comes loose and falls off because she doesn't use it enough - a bit like a rusting bicycle falling apart. Both Fred and Dolly are made to realise that they must try to remember things, for the sake of others as well as themselves, and they find that they can when they make more of an effort. Blyton often wrote stories about children who had fallen into bad habits or were careless and whose behaviour led to something drastic that caused them to pull their socks up. These two stories are pretty typical.
Enikyoga wrote:In all of these stories, Enid Blyton was writing about her own major mental problems as they progressed in her life. Thus, I feel, in hindsight,that Enid Blyton may have contributed to an understanding of Alzheimer's/Dementia if medical experts on this ailment may have read her books at the time, since they would have learnt a lot about how this disease progressed throughout one's lifetime.
Again, I feel that's stretching things. Characters like Uncle Quentin and Professor Hayling are stereotypical absent-minded scientists and, while it's true that a person who is highly focussed on a task can lose all sense of time and forget about other things - even meals - I really don't think the behaviour of such characters reveals a lot about dementia or Alzheimer's.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by tix »

by Enikyoga - 20 Aug 2010

Green Hedges,
That Enid Blyton may have died of Alzheimer's is something that has been speculated upon for some time. In one of Matt's old and probably defunct websites, we were told that the official cause of death was some sort thrombosis.

***********************************

Enid Blyton Online

Re(1): What illness did She have?
IP: 195.92.198.71
Posted on January 10, 2003 at 02:13:13 PM by Matt Roberts

Enid died of a coronary thrombosis.

Matt

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(Enikyoga has a good memory)
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

tiq wrote: Enid Blyton Online

Re(1): What illness did She have?
IP: 195.92.198.71
Posted on January 10, 2003 at 02:13:13 PM by Matt Roberts

Enid died of a coronary thrombosis.
I knew I'd read that piece of information somewhere, yet Barbara Stoney says in Enid Blyton - the Biography: "...her [Enid's] illness grew progressively worse and some three months after being admitted to a Hampstead nursing home, she died peacefully in her sleep on November 28th, 1968."

Is it possible to die of a coronary thrombosis, peacefully in one's sleep? :?
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

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Enikyoga wrote:Thus, I feel, in hindsight,that Enid Blyton may have contributed to an understanding of Alzheimer's/Dementia if medical experts on this ailment may have read her books at the time, since they would have learnt a lot about how this disease progressed throughout one's lifetime.
Stephen Isabirye
I think that those learned professors of medicine would probably feel that they acquired their knowledge through years of dedicated study and research rather than reading some Enid Blyton books in their childhood Stephen. :lol:

I always think that too much speculation into a celebrity's death is a bit morbid. Sure, we'd like to know but some things should remain private, especially when such people have lead very public lives. For me its enough to know that she suffered some form of mental ilness and died peacefully in a nursing home. I feel she deserved a peaceful end after the countless joys and pleasures she gave to millions.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

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tiq wrote:by Enikyoga - 20 Aug 2010

Green Hedges,
That Enid Blyton may have died of Alzheimer's is something that has been speculated upon for some time. In one of Matt's old and probably defunct websites, we were told that the official cause of death was some sort thrombosis.

***********************************

Enid Blyton Online

Re(1): What illness did She have?
IP: 195.92.198.71
Posted on January 10, 2003 at 02:13:13 PM by Matt Roberts

Enid died of a coronary thrombosis.

Matt

*********************************

(Enikyoga has a good memory)
Since Enid Blyton had, had some serious heart problems (whose technical name is more or less coronary thrombosis) earlier on in her life and as we know, heart problems or heart conditions never totally disappear in one's life (as Dick Cheney, the former US Vice-President), most probably on that fateful night of her death, Enid Blyton, her heart problems pre-empted her death before Alzheimer's/Dementia could. Maybe, if her heart condition had not killed her, most probably Alzheimer's would have. Thus, she was between a rock and hard place. This is the same instance with men as they advance in age, sooner or later, most of them will develop prostate cancer, that is if they live for very long. Although a sizeable number of them do not die of this disease, if another disease does not kill them, most probably, prostate cancer will kill them. This may have been the case with Enid Blyton who had both chronic heart problems as well as Alzheimer's. It seems the heart attack (coronary thrombosis) got to her faster than Alzheimer's. There is an interesting article about coronary thrombosis which you may want to read:

http://www.rawfoodexplained.com/disease ... bosis.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen I.
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Michelle Rowatt »

looking at the new evidence, her heart problems - including the heart attack in the late 1950s - were doubtlessly caused by her lifelong smoking habit
the memory problems were probably caused by smoking and alcohol related arteriosclerosis - as the arteries narrow the flow of blood is weakened not only to the limbs but to the brain as well, causing memory and cognative problems
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Re: Was it Alzheimer's?

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Michelle Rowatt wrote:looking at the new evidence, her heart problems - including the heart attack in the late 1950s - were doubtlessly caused by her lifelong smoking habit
Wasn't Enid Blyton a social smoker, only smoking occasionally?
Michelle Rowatt wrote:the memory problems were probably caused by smoking and alcohol related arteriosclerosis...
I've never got the impression that Enid drank heavily, though we know that her first husband Hugh was an alcoholic for some years and that her second husband Kenneth enjoyed vintage wines.
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