Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Carlotta King »

Thanks for the offer of Castle, Minerva, that's very kind of you. But don't worry because I already have it on my laptop, I was only looking on YT because I was being lazy and wanting to hear it on my phone without having to bother switching the laptop on! :)
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Minerva »

Another good reason for Enid Blyton's stories to be on YouTube! It's short-sighted to see such exposure as a threat to sales. Quite the contrary I should have thought?

See ya.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Courtenay »

Minerva wrote:Goodness Me, What a To-Do! The "legal eagles" are working overtime, AGAIN!!!

Quote: "I too would be very surprised if the copyright holders of those audiobooks would happily agree to have someone put them up online to be listened to for free, even if those particular recordings are the audio equivalent of "out of print", i.e. not currently being produced and sold in shops or online." (Courtenay)

Yes, this may well be the LEGAL position. However, just because something is the LAW doesn't automatically make it MORALLY acceptable!

It's a shame, because the recordings on YouTube are the "full-text" versions, not the ORIGINAL "dramatisations" like those in the Tempo series. How many children would be able to stay awake for four or five hours at bedtime?

BTW, Bernard Cribbens's reading of "Castle of Adventure" is an abbreviated version, although not strictly speaking "dramatised" - Mr Cribbens "does the voices" all by himself!

Perhaps if Ms Carlotta would like to hear the Cribben's version, she might like to PM me?

P.S. I commend Carlotta for her post. Don't be brow-beaten by those who either for self-interested reasons(!) or out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the author strive to protect vested interests. The new age of Postmodernism has declared that the Author is Dead; if so, this means that the Copyright Law has become an anachronism.
Begging your pardon, Minerva, but I'm a bit baffled here. Was there any particular reason for reacting in such a dramatically affronted way to something I posted, almost as if it were a personal insult to you? :(

I don't know you any more than you know me, but I can assure you I'm not a "legal eagle", nor am I trying to "brow-beat" anyone "either for self-interested reasons or out of a misplaced sense of loyalty to the author" in order to "protect vested interests". I was merely expressing a concern about this particular YouTube channel's possible infringements of copyright, as some others in this discussion have also done. I have no great interest in the subject overall and I'm certainly not calling for anyone to be prosecuted over it.

I'm just sorry my opinion seems to have triggered such indignation and outrage (which I never intended or expected it to) in what is normally such a friendly discussion forum. Couldn't we simply agree to disagree, if indeed we do disagree? :) Whatever one's personal stance on this issue, it's surely not worth getting so worked up over.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Moonraker »

Mountains and molehills spring to mind!
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Rob Houghton »

I don't know these recordings, and I don't know if they're still in print...but they would definitely be copyrighted. Many such recordings are still owned by the publishers and could well be reissued by them at a later date. Whether they are old recordings or not, someone still owns the copyright...
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Courtenay »

Moonraker wrote:Mountains and molehills spring to mind!
Couldn't agree more. :wink:
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I'm surprised too at the talk of "vested interests", etc. I don't think that applies to anyone who has posted but even if people with vested interests were to join the forums (e.g. Jan Francis, Bernard Cribbins, a Hodder employee or the person who owns the YouTube account), they'd be welcome to post and let us know their views.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Minerva »

Rob Houghton wrote:I don't know these recordings, and I don't know if they're still in print...but they would definitely be copyrighted. Many such recordings are still owned by the publishers and could well be reissued by them at a later date. Whether they are old recordings or not, someone still owns the copyright...
Ah, yes, but the recordings on YouTube are NOT (so far as I can determine from perusal of audio editions in Tony's "Cave") actual reproductions of previous "official" recordings. It seems that the productions on YouTube are NEW. In one sense of the word, they are fresh "creations", indeed (perhaps) new "interpretations" of the original work by Enid BLyton. How the Law views such reproductions is a moot point (at very least!) Would they be treated as "forgeries", for example? Perhaps not, since only (say) an imitation/reproduction of the first edition of a Blyton book, or something of that sort, could be said to be a Forgery. But in this case we are talking about a NEW recording of quite a few Blyton works (which, incidentally, suggests that whoever is behind this "enterprise" must have looked into the question of copyright before releasing such a large number of recordings?)

But even if my speculation turns out to be incorrect, my original point still stands: copyright laws that merely "mothball" works of literature in perpetuity serve neither the author, or her reputation, or her readers. As I also pointed out, a new century ushers in new technology and new philosophies about "authorship" and so on. It is time to bring Blyton into the Cyber-Age! And YouTube could be the vehicle for a Renaissance.

So I reject the view that such concerns are mere "molehills", they are serious issues for all fans of Enid Blyton to consider.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Minerva wrote:Ah, yes, but the recordings on YouTube are NOT (so far as I can determine from perusal of audio editions in Tony's "Cave") actual reproductions of previous "official" recordings. It seems that the productions on YouTube are NEW. In one sense of the word, they are fresh "creations", indeed (perhaps) new "interpretations" of the original work by Enid BLyton.
I listened to the beginnings of three Blyton audio books on that YouTube account ('A Book At Bedtime'). The name of the person reading The Island of Adventure wasn't given. However, Five on a Treasure Island and Five Go Adventuring Again were the Jan Francis recordings which were released as cassettes in the 1990s.
Minerva wrote:But even if my speculation turns out to be incorrect, my original point still stands: copyright laws that merely "mothball" works of literature in perpetuity serve neither the author, or her reputation, or her readers.
I too dislike the copyright laws.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Rob Houghton »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:
Minerva wrote:But even if my speculation turns out to be incorrect, my original point still stands: copyright laws that merely "mothball" works of literature in perpetuity serve neither the author, or her reputation, or her readers.
I too dislike the copyright laws.
I do too. In the past I've felt the same about some old musical movies from the 1930's, which the copyright holders were refusing to release, and so I bought pirate copies. Thankfully the copyright holders have now caught on and many are being released under the 'archive' label. About time!
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Minerva »

Anita Bensoussane wrote:I'm surprised too at the talk of "vested interests", etc. I don't think that applies to anyone who has posted but even if people with vested interests were to join the forums (e.g. Jan Francis, Bernard Cribbins, a Hodder employee or the person who owns the YouTube account), they'd be welcome to post and let us know their views.
Quite right, Anita. Thank you for your level head (as usual). My initial comments were partly "tongue-in-cheek" (perhaps I should have used a swarm of "smilies"?) :) As for "vested interests", I accept that this was unfair and not necessarily applicable to anyone who has so far posted in this thread (although the secret workings of the human heart are by-and-large hidden from view). Nevertheless, certain "agendas" operate in forums such as this one. I was merely signalling the need for those who speak out not to be over-awed by the "consensus" of opinion. Not that Carlotta needed my help!

In any case, my main point is down in the third para. "Just because something is the LAW doesn't make it morally acceptable." This expands the previous reference to "legal eagles" (with its implied warning against legalistic nit-picking). More in hope, perhaps??

I certainly hope that subsequent discussion here is directed to the nub of the issue which I raised in reply to Moonraker, rather than just trying to shoot the messenger!
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Fiona1986 »

I don't recall anyone commenting on the morality of the You Tube offerings. We simply raised the legal issues - as many people would choose not to involve themselves however tenuously in the breaking of copyright laws be that by merely listening or promoting such items. That's entirely up to each individual and I think that anyone with all the facts can then make their own decisions on such matters.
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Courtenay »

That's just what I was thinking, Fiona. All this talk of "certain 'agendas'" and "the secret workings of the human heart" still has me baffled, I'm afraid, Minerva. I for one have absolutely no problem with someone saying "Well, I don't see anything wrong in this, I think it's great that these books are being made available as they should be and I reckon copyright laws are an outdated and unfair concept." Some will agree with that opinion and some won't, but I don't think anyone here would argue against the right to express it.

The only thing that surprises me here is that the whole issue seems to have suddenly blown out of all proportion — from a simple question about copyright to impassioned talk of morality versus legality and vested interests and hidden agendas (as if a simple difference of opinion means there's some conspiracy going on) — which I think might be what triggered Moonraker's comment about mountains and molehills! :shock:
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Minerva »

Anita:

"I listened to the beginnings of three Blyton audio books on that YouTube account ('A Book At Bedtime'). The name of the person reading The Island of Adventure wasn't given. However, Five on a Treasure Island and Five Go Adventuring Again were the Jan Francis recordings which were released as cassettes in the 1990s."

Thanks for the "reality check", Anita!

My chief interest was the "Adventure" series as I have been collecting the Tempo cassettes (and one or two others). I didn't know of any unabridged readings in that group. Such was the basis of my research.

I checked The Cave but couldn't unearth any full-length readings ("Adventure" series) in that collection . I think I once heard a recording of "Valley of Adventure" with a (unidentified) female reader, which could have been Jan Francis, I suppose. Hence I assumed that the recordings on YouTube were new! What seemed to clinch it was that the YouTube "River of Adventure" was unabridged. I wasn't aware of any such recording (apart from some dramatised or TV spinoff productions)

Well, now that unabridged readings in the "Adventure" series are on YouTube, I guess the next question is "Who is/are the reader(s)?
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Re: Adventure Audiobooks (and others)

Post by Minerva »

Courtenay wrote:
Fiona1986 wrote:I don't recall anyone commenting on the morality of the You Tube offerings. We simply raised the legal issues - as many people would choose not to involve themselves however tenuously in the breaking of copyright laws be that by merely listening or promoting such items. That's entirely up to each individual and I think that anyone with all the facts can then make their own decisions on such matters.
That's just what I was thinking, Fiona. All this talk of "certain 'agendas'" and "the secret workings of the human heart" still has me baffled, I'm afraid, Minerva. I for one have absolutely no problem with someone saying "Well, I don't see anything wrong in this, I think it's great that these books are being made available as they should be and I reckon copyright laws are an outdated and unfair concept." Some will agree with that opinion and some won't, but I don't think anyone here would argue against the right to express it.

The only thing that surprises me here is that the whole issue seems to have suddenly blown out of all proportion — from a simple question about copyright to impassioned talk of morality versus legality and vested interests and hidden agendas (as if a simple difference of opinion means there's some conspiracy going on) — which I think might be what triggered Moonraker's comment about mountains and molehills! :shock:
Perhaps I've spent too much time in the Postmodernist Funhouse!!!

But what intrigues me is the way a few comparatively "innocent" observations set off the fireworks?!
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