The Enid Blyton Society

Although I do not owned any dog at the moment, I kind of like dogs. One of the reason I have this interest is because there are many of them in Enid Blyton books. There are at least four major compatriots in Enid's book: Timmy, Buster, Scamper and Loony. Enid did not mentioned specific breed for Timmy, I guess generally known as mongrel. Buster is Fatty's jet-black Scottish Terrier. Scamper is a friendly golden English Cocker Spaniel. Then, a jet black spaniel named Loony, who lives up to his name by rushing around and getting under everyone's feet, as well as stealing things (quoted from Society's page). I also remember Lucky from Circus series, although I can't find what breed it is.

Now, in other children book from Germany, TKKG, there is a cocker spaniel named Oscar. Which make a number of spaniel, so I wonder in reality is the Spaniel an ideal dog breed to goes into the story?

If you can suggest the perfect (ideal) dog breed for Enid Blyton story, what breed it is?
Some popular breeds are Golden retriever, German shepherd, Bulldog, Poddle, a Siberian Husky etc.
Can a Chihuahua do well for the story ?

There are many factors to deal with as I can imagine: mixed well with children, loves to exercise, intelligent, obedience, strong, able to switch to "protective" mode when required and so on.

Lucky from the Galliano's Circus books is a fox-terrier. She's my favourite Blyton dog as she's so clever and affectionate and has such a strong bond with Jimmy.

I can't remember whether a chihuahua ever features in an Enid Blyton book, but if it did I imagine it would belong to a grand lady who would carry it around and cosset it.

Enid Blyton herself had a number of spaniels and fox-terriers so it's not surprising that they crop up so often in her stories.

I think a labrador would have made a good dog to accompany a group of children on adventures.

hi Anita. So that's is another (fox) terrier in the story, I browsed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_Terri ... ant_breeds and learn that is it originated from England, similar to English Cocker Spaniel, Enid surely quite "nationalistic" about dog breed.

I guess Enid also wanted the pet to be significant recognized in the story but at the same time avoid her appearances to overcome the human characters. Thus fancy dog breed such as Dalmations will not make it to the story.

Then Timmy of course is a "big brown mongrel dog" — we're told it's impossible to tell what breed he's supposed to be — so perhaps Enid was looking more at the character traits she wanted for a dog in a story (intelligence, loyalty, bravery and so on) than a specific breed. I'm aware she based Timmy on a real dog she knew, and Loony was essentially her own spaniel Laddie under a different name. I would guess Lucky is based on the several fox terriers she owned, like Bobs and Sandy, but probably given a bit more ability to learn and perform circus tricks than we'd be likely to find in any single dog in real life!

Fascinating thought when trying to imagine Timmy. A brown border collie is what I always had in mind.
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Though in some adaptations Timmy is black and white also.

For me, it's the Timmy from the 70's TV series that'll always stick in my mind whenever I read the books, despite reading them before I ever saw the series. It was a big influence on me...& I loved Toddy who played Timmy! I've grown up with Border Collie's & I own one now, so I'm probably being biased!

That is what happens to me as well. For me, Timmy will always be a border collie. This is probably because I watched the 1970 movie first and also my first FF books had illustrations from this same series.

And what about Sally in Five have plenty of fun ! She was a black poodle.

I always think of Timmy as a border Collie too. Another dog of note was the first Enid book I read on my own - Shadow the Sheepdog. Loved it - the teacher was reading a chapter a day at the end of school and I couldn't wait so I read it first and then sat back and enjoyed it again with the teacher reading it.

Timmy is a mongrel, a complete Heinz 57, I really don't know where the idea came from to have him depicted as a border collie! An extremely powerful large dog too strong to hold back is not how I'd describe a border, even the biggest ones I've seen are still not right for Enid's description of Timmy. The only 'breed' that could really fit with Tim's appearance is a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle, of which I have groomed enough of to know they really are a very big, solid, powerfully built dog that you'd have trouble hanging on to . It's a pity they weren't around when they filmed the FF, get a brown one with a more shaggy than curly coat and you would have a very good match for Timmy. The only real place a border matches Tim is in the intelligence stakes!

labradoodle:

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Goldendoodle:

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I can easily see Timmy as resembling one of these

I imagine Timmy as a cross between a red setter and a chocolate labrador.

IceMaiden wrote:Timmy is a mongrel, a complete Heinz 57, I really don't know where the idea came from to have him depicted as a border collie!

I've always suspected it's because, for the purposes of making the 1978 TV series, they simply had to use whichever dog they could find that could be trained easily enough to do whatever he had to do for each episode of the show, and obviously a border collie was the best candidate available. In the 1990s series they used a grey-and-white dog that looked much more like a mongrel, but seems even smaller and a lot skinnier than a Border Collie — I can't quite imagine him defending the children from villains either.

Timmy was based on a real dog that Enid knew — I know there's a quote somewhere where she points out that Eileen Soper, the original illustrator, didn't draw him exactly the same as the dog Enid had in mind, but then she (Soper) had never seen him. I wish we had a photo of that original dog so we could see exactly what the "real" Timmy looked like in Enid's own imagination, but apparently that has never come to light...

A Labradoodle or Goldendoodle is a possibility, I agree too, but it would have to be one that hadn't inherited one of the key features of the poodle... pure-bred poodles and some (not all) poodle crosses have a coat that doesn't shed, but keeps growing and growing and can reach incredible lengths if it's not clipped regularly. I don't think George had a dog grooming salon available for Timmy, so I'd have to assume that if he had poodle ancestry, it didn't give him that kind of coat!

I always imagine Timmy as Eileen Soper drew him - a big dog with a too-long long feathery tail, a 'laughing' face, ears that fall over towards the front when he's alert, and a wavy, slightly rough-haired coat. I imagine him as physically strong with a lot of stamina, with a loud bark, and his coat a brown/sandy colour.

Shadow I imagine as an Old English Sheepdog - I can't remember how he is described in the book, but that was the picture on the paperback I had as a child and so it stuck.

I've always liked Enid's descriptions of spaniels, she usually describes them as having melting brown eyes and long silky coats and makes them sound very appealing to look at (which indeed they are).

Courtenay wrote:

IceMaiden wrote:Timmy is a mongrel, a complete Heinz 57, I really don't know where the idea came from to have him depicted as a border collie!

I've always suspected it's because, for the purposes of making the 1978 TV series, they simply had to use whichever dog they could find that could be trained easily enough to do whatever he had to do for each episode of the show, and obviously a border collie was the best candidate available. In the 1990s series they used a grey-and-white dog that looked much more like a mongrel, but seems even smaller and a lot skinnier than a Border Collie — I can't quite imagine him defending the children from villains either.

Timmy was based on a real dog that Enid knew — I know there's a quote somewhere where she points out that Eileen Soper, the original illustrator, didn't draw him exactly the same as the dog Enid had in mind, but then she (Soper) had never seen him. I wish we had a photo of that original dog so we could see exactly what the "real" Timmy looked like in Enid's own imagination, but apparently that has never come to light...

A Labradoodle or Goldendoodle is a possibility, I agree too, but it would have to be one that hadn't inherited one of the key features of the poodle... pure-bred poodles and some (not all) poodle crosses have a coat that doesn't shed, but keeps growing and growing and can reach incredible lengths if it's not clipped regularly. I don't think George had a dog grooming salon available for Timmy, so I'd have to assume that if he had poodle ancestry, it didn't give him that kind of coat!

The 90's dog was really too small to be Timmy but it did fit the description of being a mongrel that was impossible to tell what exactly it was, which was much more accurate than the very obvious collie used in the 70's series, and for that reason I could buy it more as being Timmy. I also wonder if they purposely used a smaller dog so the child actors could pick him up easier?

I too wish I could see a photo of the original dog Timmy was based on, the dog world is my work and field of expertise so I'd have a pretty good go at working out was in that mix if only to satisfy a long burning curiosity .

Not all poodle crosses inherit the poodle coat, it's pot luck if they do, even in the same litter they can all have a totally different coat and look vastly different, one of my customer's dogs looks like a slightly rough coated labrador but I've seen others that have so much hair they resemble a walking rug . Of course nowadays if George wanted to know what Timmy was she could pay simply pay £40 for a home done DNA test, but if he has got poodle in him I hope she doesn't find out, given the contempt she showed towards Sally she wouldn't be very pleased if she discovered her Tim was from the same mould as Berta's 'horrid wooly pet'!

The German films of this millenium also used dogs too small to sufficiently protect the children. I suppose it's quite hard to find suitable dogs for filming though, they have to enjoy their "work" and know all the tricks they have to perform before the filming starts so you can be sure they can do it.

IceMaiden wrote:Timmy is a mongrel, a complete Heinz 57, I really don't know where the idea came from to have him depicted as a border collie!

I'm guessing that the reason they used a Border Collie in the 70's series was probably down to which dog did best in the auditions (Yes, animals do get auditioned for tv/films!), or someone in the production team couldve known of/or worked with Toddy, & put him forward for the part! He had already appeared in the Railway Children film by then, so maybe he was an obvious choice. Maybe Gary Russell will be of help in answering this one.

I didn't mention in my last post that I did imagine Timmy as being of a mixed breed before the release of the 70's tv series. Once I became addicted to the series, though, then this image was wiped out & replaced by Toddy the BC.