The Teachers World

Discuss Blyton's magazines, short stories and poetry here.
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Ming
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The Teachers World

Post by Ming »

I mentioned in the Cave of Books thread that I was perusing the Teachers World entries. I've read the first twelve or so entries, all of which I enjoyed very much, but for me, The Making of Merriden Major was perhaps the most useful one so far.

This was the first time I've across the word "auto suggestion", the idea that telling someone something repeatedly makes the listener believe it is true. I certainly do believe this is a valid idea. I think auto suggestion also works when a person tell themselves something repeatedly (not just have somebody else say it) and they feel and genuinely believe what they are telling themselves is how it actually works.

This is quite similar to a quotation that I have been pondering on recently for an essay I have to write: "Stereotyped beliefs have the power to become self-fulfilling prophesies for behavior."

In The Making of Merriden Major, young Merridan is bullied by his form master into thinking he is a worthless, good for nothing rascal. Another teacher suggests trying a different approach - instead of criticizing Merriden and repeatedly saying that he is useless ("auto suggestion"? or "suggestion"? and "stereotyped beliefs") the form master is to encourage him and enable him to discover and then focus on his strengths. Merriden works poorly in his form master's class because, the teacher reasons, that the stereotypes attached to Merriden has become true for him ("self fulfilling prophesies for behavior"). Her different approach enables Merriden to discover his talent in Geography and he begins to perform superbly in his classes.

I have never before seen such a complex psychological process broken down so simply into such a nice and relatable story. I think this certainly stands true, even today, and that every teacher should be aware of it. Not many teachers have the time, patience, or perhaps even the necessary brains to understand psychology (I certainly don't) but every person certainly has the capability to understand this story by Enid. I have passed it on to the head of my school, and she loved it too. She has had copies of this made (I hope there aren't any objections, Tony? The Society has been credited) and sent to all the other teachers, which, in addition to teaching everyone a valuable lesson, gained me some brownie points. :D
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by Tony Summerfield »

No objection at all, Ming, I'm glad you found it useful!
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by Katharine »

I always thought 'auto suggestion' was more a case of suddenly thinking you are hungry when some starts talking about food, or something like that.

I'm not a teacher, but from what I read in that article, I'd say teaching today is more along the lines of Miss Morris, than Mr. Clark. Certainly in the last 3 years while I've been helping in the school, I've never heard a teacher telling a child they are useless or incapable of producing good work. Maybe it's different in secondary schools, but I'd have thought that any teacher who put a child down like that would find themselves out of a job pretty quickly.

Having said that, I think the story over simplified the problem and the solution. That's one tiny criticism I have of Enid Blyton's stories. Someone always has to be the bottom of the class, unless every child miraculously gets the same marks for every subject, someone will always be top, and someone else the bottom. I sometimes feel that with her stories, the child at the bottom is seen as lazy rather than incapable, and that by some miracle the child mends it's ways and is top of the class within a week. In some cases that might really happen, but some children will try their hardest but never get higher that bottom place. And anyway, if the lazy child ends up top of the class, someone has to take their place at the bottom, so what happens next, does that bottom child 'pull their socks up' and end up top the next week, only to be replaced by the newly bottom child the following week etc?

Also, whilst a good teacher can probably help make a difference to a child's progress through school, a lot also depends on the home life of that child too. A teacher can only do so much, but if the child goes home to an attitude of 'well I never tried at school and it never did me any harm' then I would say the teacher is probably fighting a losing battle.

I've seen teachers spending time having one to one sessions with a child trying to encourage them with their reading, praising them for the tiniest bit of progress, but still, week after week, they are still a long way behind everyone else.
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

It's great that 'The Making of Merriden Major' is proving so useful for you and other teachers at the school, Ming! It's a while since I've read it and I haven't time to look at it now, but I remember finding it interesting.
Katharine wrote:That's one tiny criticism I have of Enid Blyton's stories. Someone always has to be the bottom of the class, unless every child miraculously gets the same marks for every subject, someone will always be top, and someone else the bottom. I sometimes feel that with her stories, the child at the bottom is seen as lazy rather than incapable, and that by some miracle the child mends it's ways and is top of the class within a week. In some cases that might really happen, but some children will try their hardest but never get higher that bottom place. And anyway, if the lazy child ends up top of the class, someone has to take their place at the bottom, so what happens next.
It does seem like that sometimes, but I think what Enid Blyton really objects to is children who have brains but don't bother to use them. In the story 'Bottom of the Class!' she shows sympathy for a boy called Bobby, who has missed school through illness and is far behind everyone else. Not only is he struggling academically but he is awkward when it comes to handiwork (he is left-handed - like Enid's daughter Imogen!) and is poor at games. His parents decide not to worry about all that but focus on encouraging him in what he is good at - i.e. gardening. His mother says, "When people aren't much good at anything, and can't help it, it's very important to find something they like and can do really well." So his parents give him a big piece of garden and buy him a set of gardening tools. Bobby works hard in the garden - leading to his talents being recognised by the community.

There's another story about a boy who is always bottom of the class but he is so polite, helpful and cheerful that other mothers admire him and wish their more academic children were more like him. Unfortunately I can't remember the title.
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by Ming »

Katharine wrote:I'm not a teacher, but from what I read in that article, I'd say teaching today is more along the lines of Miss Morris, than Mr. Clark. Certainly in the last 3 years while I've been helping in the school, I've never heard a teacher telling a child they are useless or incapable of producing good work. Maybe it's different in secondary schools, but I'd have thought that any teacher who put a child down like that would find themselves out of a job pretty quickly.
You would be surprised, Katharine, at the number of Severus Snape like teachers I've met over the years. Until I was in Grade 9 or 10, such teachers would often reduce us to tears. After that, however, you become quite immune to it, and some of we more thick skinned people used to actually "collect" interesting put downs. I have a very interesting selection that I dare not use.
Having said that, I think the story over simplified the problem and the solution. That's one tiny criticism I have of Enid Blyton's stories. Someone always has to be the bottom of the class, unless every child miraculously gets the same marks for every subject, someone will always be top, and someone else the bottom. I sometimes feel that with her stories, the child at the bottom is seen as lazy rather than incapable, and that by some miracle the child mends it's ways and is top of the class within a week. In some cases that might really happen, but some children will try their hardest but never get higher that bottom place. And anyway, if the lazy child ends up top of the class, someone has to take their place at the bottom, so what happens next, does that bottom child 'pull their socks up' and end up top the next week, only to be replaced by the newly bottom child the following week etc?
I thought about this for a while and at first I agreed but I have come to disagree with this. I don't think the problem was oversimplified. Even if someone is always in the bottom place, despite working hard, I don't think it's the ranking that really matters but the personal development. For someone who, perhaps, always scores a 45 and is the bottom but gradually improves through hard work and encouragement to a 60, while still being at the bottom, is still an achievement.
Also, whilst a good teacher can probably help make a difference to a child's progress through school, a lot also depends on the home life of that child too. A teacher can only do so much, but if the child goes home to an attitude of 'well I never tried at school and it never did me any harm' then I would say the teacher is probably fighting a losing battle.
I agree with this, certainly. Home environment contributes significantly to how a child will progress in school. I'm right now facing a dilemma with a certain student whose parents, I believe, pressurize him incredibly to get high marks. I took a marked classwork three weeks ago where everyone scored quite poorly, and I was not surprised because I was using it as a diagnostic to find which areas each child needs improvement upon. I prepared the question paper in the same format and difficulty level as they will face at the end of the year in their externally assessed board exam, which, I personally think, is quite difficult.

After I discussed the answers with them every student took notes and resolved to do better next time... except that one student. He cried and begged me to raise his marks so his parents wouldn't scold him. His previous teacher said that was nothing new because he irritated the teachers so much with this in the past that they would raise his marks just so he would stop hounding them at break, before assembly, between classes, etc. I refused, of course. I announced a test for Thursday a fortnight ago and he missed the entirety of last week because he was absent. He then begged me to make an easier test for him or change the date because he won't get good marks since he missed one topic. I reasoned that this was not fair and it his responsibility to come to me during break to explain missed topics but not only did he cry about it but also not show up.

His mom also "attacked" me after school asking why his marks were like that, and despite explaining several times that it is not the mark that matters but the learning, both mother and son refused to listen. It's said that parents are often the reason for a child's success, but in this case, the parents will be his downfall. :roll:

Anita, both those stories sound wonderful, and I wish more parents and teachers were like that.
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by Katharine »

Ming, I'm sorry to hear you've had some bad teachers. I don't know whether any like that exist here. I think possibly they did in the past, but nowadays, with the idea that a child mustn't even be told it is naughty, I think anyone who reduced a child to tears would be looking for another job in a very short space of time.

I agree with you that it's the child's progress rather than their placement that's important. We've just had a meeting with my seven year old's teacher, who said that his aim is to assess each child at the beginning of term, and make sure they progress through their year with him. I got the impression that he's not worried about government targets, just making sure each child can reach their potential for that year.

Having read your comment about the child under so much pressure from his parents, I actually think that's worse than having parents who don't care of support a child. At least that child can be encouraged by teachers, and maybe even one day as an adult decide to get some training to make up for what they missed as a child. I'd have thought though that it's much harder to rid a child of the idea that a child should be better than they are actually capable of. I can see the potential for a nervous breakdown there.
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Re: The Teachers World

Post by sixret »

Katharine wrote:. I think anyone who reduced a child to tears would be looking for another job in a very short space of time.
But then, some children are very easy to use "tears" as a weapon to escape from their wrongdoings. They know the teachers/ parents will not punish them if they cry. They use "psychological solution". People always underestimate the ability of children escaping from their wrongdoings. And the best thing is, teachers/adults will always get the blame when children cry. Parents always listen to their children even if they tell lies. To me, it is not fair and what moral values do you want to teach to your children? That they will always to be believed even if they tell lie?
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Re: The Teachers World

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Sixret, that is true of course, some children know exactly how to manipulate situations. I love my children very much, but know they aren't perfect, and would like to think that I would know if they were telling the truth about a situation. Sometimes they don't actually lie, but only give one particular version of events, which gives a distorted picture of the whole situation.

I do know some parents though who believe every word that comes out of their child's mouth and am sometimes quite flabbergasted that they can't or won't see the child is lying through their teeth. I probably sound like a dreadful parent, but if one of my children came home and said 'teacher kept me in at break for no reason today', my reaction would be 'well, I'm sure you must have done something wrong' and then by careful questioning would discover, that actually they'd been talking in class and despite having 3 warnings, carried on, in which case the detention would in my opinion be justified. Obviously if after questioning I thought they had been unfairly treated, I would go and speak to the teacher myself to find out what their version of events was.

Only once did a teacher make a comment about one of my children that I didn't feel was justified. They described her as spiteful. That didn't fit in with my idea of my daughter, and I was worried that I was a blinkered parent who couldn't see their child's fault. As we were leaving the school, I saw the headteacher, so just passed the comment that I was concerned that my daughter might be showing spiteful behaviour. I was reassured however that she whilst she needed to learn to let others take their turn, and share ideas more, it was simply that she was over enthusiastic in class and didn't think, there was no spite behind her actions. That was a comment that I accepted readily, as I knew that to be a trait of hers.

Apparently, the ability to lie, especially in small children is a sign of intelligence, as it shows that they assess a situation and work out a way of avoiding punishment. I've always tried to emphasise with my children, that if they have done something wrong then there must be some kind of 'punishment', however, if I discover they have done something wrong, and then lied about it, then the punishment will be far greater.

By punishment, I mean, perhaps no TV for the rest of the evening, if they've lied though, it would be no TV for 2 or 3 days. As for using tears as a weapon, I think they realised at a very early age that 'crocodile tears' don't work with me, and will simply end in being sent to their room until they have stopped it. Genuine tears of course are dealt with sympathetically. Hopefully I've managed to tell the difference between the two.
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Re: The Teachers World

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I think you have Katharine - very clearly. It all boils down to "Know the child". This works both as a parent and as a teacher. I found very early on in my teaching career that some children respond to one type of encouragement and another to quite another. To a confident, somewhat overly show-offy type one could quite happily say "Come on, you can do better than that, try again" while to a shy introvert a far gentler approach would get the best results. One approach can challenge one type but crush another. As far as a parent actually pleading or demanding that a child's marks should be falsely improved as Ming has experienced, I say "what hope for the poor child?" One day he will realise what his parent has done and may even despise her for it. So sad. In the meanwhile it's a dilemma for the school. He'll come a cropper in any external exams and who will the mother blame then?
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Re: The Teachers World

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Daisy, I think you are right about different approaches working for different children. Although I don't agree with putting a child down, in some circumstances it might actually have the required effect as the child would think 'I'll show you' and work really hard. Unfortunately, another child would be really crushed and give up, thinking they were a failure.

I know from helping with the Reception class reading, it's so hard sometimes to have to correct a child when they've made a mistake, as some of them are frightened of trying again. So I'll usually say something like 'that was a really good try, and nearly right, but have another go'. It's pointless telling a child something is correct, when it clearly isn't, but on the other hand, it can't be nice for them thinking they've always got the answer wrong.

As for the child and it's parents refusing to accept it's correct grades, I can think of someone who I know of who comes from a similar background. Not as extreme as that, but the parents always blamed the school if they didn't pass exams, etc. etc. In their case they seem to have fitted into society without any problems, but are now taking a similar approach with their own children. So far the signs are not looking good for one of their kids being able to handle failure.

I must admit, as a parent, it is hard sometimes to see your children not doing as well as hoped, but trying to blame someone else such as a teacher or school isn't going to help the child in the long run. They need to accept their weaknesses, as well as their strengths and do the best they can with their abilities.
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Re: The Teachers World

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Agreed. :D
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