English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

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Rob Houghton
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Rob Houghton »

Then there's Boadicea - which as a kid we always pronounced 'Bow-dis-ear but now is apparently pronounced
'Bow-dikka' :?
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hearts mad delight,
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by pete9012S »

Yes,good point Dave.
Reminds me of the time I was discussing the differences between Classical Greek and the modern Greek spoken today with a Greek friend on Thassos back in 2006.
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Katharine »

It wasn't Mr. Eppy was it? :wink:
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by sixret »

The double m sounds in Muhammad is because it has sabdu on top of the "mim"(equivalent to m) letter. Sabdu is one of the tajwid(grammatical way to read/pronounce each word in Quran).

Sabdu is a sign like "w" shape on top of the Arabic letter. When we see it, we must pronounce the consonant as double.

Sattah--> not satah(if got sabdu on top of the "ta"(equivalent to t))
Jabbar--> not jabar(if got sabdu on top of the "ba"(equivalent to b))

Muhamad/Mohamed/Mohammed----> wrong pronunciation if we follow the Arabic tajwid(proper way of Arabic pronunciation)

Muhammad---> correct pronunciation if we follow Arabic tajwid.

In Arabic, there are only 3 vowels i.e. a(similar to the sound of aa), i(similar to the sound of ii) and u(similar to the sound of uu). There's no oo(o-ld) sound or ee(en-ter) sound vowels.

I agree, Arabic language emphasizes the consonants. Arabic people do not need the tajwid signs to read Arabic language but in Quran, there are tajwid signs so that non-Arabic people could pronounce each word properly which is very helpful for Muslims around the world who are not Arabic.



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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

That's interesting, Sixret. It may be a bit less precise, but in Britain you see "Mohammed" much more often than "Muhammad". When writing his name in the Roman alphabet, my husband puts "Mohamed". I believe that's the form that's most common in France (the part of Morocco in which he grew up was once controlled by the French).
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by KEVP »

The name "Boadicea" was changed because we found out that the word was wrong, it was miscopied or something. Her actual name was "Boudic(c)a". But the Victorians used the incorrect spelling (and pronunciation) "Boadicea", so that's why you still see it everywhere.

David Bowie was born "David Jones". He took the stage name "Bowie" to avoid confusion with "Davy Jones" in the Monkees. He was indeed inspired by the American frontiersman (and the knife he invented!).

The reason that foreigners can understand the southeastern dialect of English is because that is the dialect of English that they were taught in school. And it also was the dialect of the British Empire. In the days of the Empire, you had to speak that particular dialect to get a job in the Colonial office. And some say that pretty much that was the only job requirement for the Colonial office! So that is the dialect that was spread to all of Britain's colonies, especially India. Army and Navy officers and other government jobs also only went to folks who spoke with that particular dialect.
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Courtenay »

KEVP wrote: The reason that foreigners can understand the southeastern dialect of English is because that is the dialect of English that they were taught in school. And it also was the dialect of the British Empire. In the days of the Empire, you had to speak that particular dialect to get a job in the Colonial office. And some say that pretty much that was the only job requirement for the Colonial office! So that is the dialect that was spread to all of Britain's colonies, especially India. Army and Navy officers and other government jobs also only went to folks who spoke with that particular dialect.
Hmmm... as far as I know, technically there's no such thing as "the southeastern dialect of English". There are several distinct dialects in southeastern England, most of which were NOT "the dialect of the British Empire". I live just southeast of London myself and our local dialect is Estuary, which definitely wouldn't have got anyone a job in the Colonial Office (or indeed on the BBC in times past)!! :twisted:

I suspect what you're thinking of is actually Received Pronunciation, which isn't a natural dialect at all, but the "proper" English accent that everyone in Britain and the Empire used to have to imitate (or try to) if they wanted to move up in the world. It's an accent of class, not of region. But there's a certain famous musical that says it all a lot more eloquently than I can... :wink:
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Rob Houghton »

In Artford Eriford and Ampshire urricanes ardly hever appen
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by KEVP »

Yes, Courteney is absolutely right about the origins of "Received Pronunciation". I was oversimplifying for the benefit of non-British readers.
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Courtenay »

Unfortunately, we do tend to say "The rine in Spine sties minely in the pline" in Strine. :mrgreen: :wink:
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by pete9012S »

KEVP wrote:Yes, Courteney is absolutely right about the origins of "Received Pronunciation". I was oversimplifying for the benefit of non-British readers.

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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Rob Houghton »

Courtenay wrote:Unfortunately, we do tend to say "The rine in Spine sties minely in the pline" in Strine. :mrgreen: :wink:
I've often wondered where the Australian accent originated...from native races, or from various areas of the world?
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Courtenay »

I've always suspected it has a lot to do with Irish and Cockney, which most of the convicts were! :lol: And yet New Zealanders have a very similar accent, except for particular vowel sounds (the infamous "fush and chups" etc. :wink: ), and they weren't a penal colony, so I really don't know where it comes from.

Wikipedia has a lengthy article on Australian English, but it hasn't enlightened me much further as to how it actually originated! :P
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Katharine »

I've always thought that the New Zealand accent sounds more like South African that Australia. I'd love to know more about the spread of English throughout the world.
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Re: English Grammar, Spelling and Vocabulary

Post by Courtenay »

Katharine wrote:I've always thought that the New Zealand accent sounds more like South African that Australia.
Yes, they have almost the same vowel sounds somehow — I don't know how that came about when NZ and South Africa are thousands of miles apart and have Australia in between them! :lol: But otherwise, white South Africans usually sound a little closer to RP English than either Australians or New Zealanders do, whereas other than those particular vowels, NZ English is much like a not-very-broad Australian accent. I often can't tell whether a speaker is Aussie or Kiwi until they say certain words, and a lot of British and American people have told me they can't tell the difference at all. I sometimes get asked over here if I'm from New Zealand, possibly because my accent isn't as broad as some — or maybe because people assume Kiwis will be more annoyed at being asked if they're Aussies (New Zealand being the much smaller country) than the other way around! :wink:
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