General Natter Room

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Rob Houghton
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Rob Houghton »

Moonraker wrote:
Tony Summerfield wrote:I think what concerns me is when speculation turns into fact. It is now widely believed, however, that without Corfe Castle we would never have had the Famous Five. Surely something like this has to come from Enid herself, but this is what she did have to say in a letter to a group of children:-
"I am so glad you like my books. I will be sure to write you plenty more. I will see if I can put the “Five” on Kirrin Island again for you. It was an island I once visited several times when I was in Jersey – it lay off the coast & could only be reached either by boat or by a rocky path exposed when the tide was out. It had an old castle there and I longed to put the island & castle into a book. So I did, as you know!"
Exactly what I was thinking, Tony. I just don't get this Dorset connection. Surely, if Enid said Kirrin Island was based on an island off the coast of Jersey - that's where it was. If Kirrin Island looks like Corfe Castle (and let's face it, one ruined castle looks very much like another!) this is down to Eileen Soper's illustrations.
I've never actually thought Kirrin castle looked anything like Corfe! Its not even the right shape! I always felt the Dorset connection has more to do with the fact Enid holidayed there rather than the fact she set things there. I've always believed she was inspired by Dorset and loved it as an area because she returned again and again. She must have been influenced by Dorset and I think many of her holiday stories are probably set there (or roundabouts!) but not in any specific location.

The reason Kirrin Castle is always linked with Corfe is surely mainly to do with the 1957 film serial?
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

I think it was Norman Wright who first connected Kirrin Castle with Corfe (other than the 1957 adaptation of Five on a Treasure Island) when he wrote in Journal 1, 1996 (if I remember correctly) that he had always imagined Kirrin Castle to look like Corfe Castle and was pleased to see from a letter in Teachers World that Enid Blyton had visited Corfe Castle.
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Wolfgang »

Fiona1986 wrote:
Moonraker wrote:
Fiona1986 wrote:I was about to say that plenty of my teachers used sarcasm as a weapon
So that's where you learned it from! :wink:
Oh no, I was born this way :D
So did the teachers learn from you, Fiona ;-)?
Success is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Fiona1986 »

Well the worst offender had also taught my mother (and was apparently just as bad back then) so that's unlikely, Wolfgang :lol:
"It's the ash! It's falling!" yelled Julian, almost startling Dick out of his wits...
"Listen to its terrible groans and creaks!" yelled Julian, almost beside himself with impatience.


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John Pickup
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by John Pickup »

If Enid herself said that Kirrin Castle was based on one she saw on an island off Jersey then surely that should end any speculation about it.
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by number 6 »

During two separate conversations with Gillian Baverstock (One at an EBS meeting at Twyford & the other in Viv's Pop Shop) I asked her if Kirrin Castle was based on a real Castle. Her reply on each occasion was "My Mother told me that Kirrin Castle was based on the Castle at Corfe"!
The reason I asked her twice, was simply because I wanted to know for sure that her answer would be the same...which it was. This doesn't prove anything, but her claim can't be dismissed so easily either.
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Julie2owlsdene »

That's interesting, number 6. I was given a copy of a letter from Enid Blyton that was written to someone I knew, and in that letter Enid writes that the castle was based on an island off Jersey. So it seems that Enid somehow has mentioned two different locations here.

I always thought that Eileen Soper's illustrations of Kirrin looked like Corfe Castle and Faynights Castle. :)

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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Tony Summerfield »

I'm sorry to say this, but Gillian normally replied to that sort of question with the answer that she thought the person who asked her wanted to hear. I always remember the TV programme when she met the caddy on the golf course (I'm afraid as usual his name escapes me!) and greeted him warmly like a long lost friend. She told me afterwards that she had no recollection of having ever met him before.
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Rob Houghton »

Julie2owlsdene wrote:I always thought that Eileen Soper's illustrations of Kirrin looked like Corfe Castle and Faynights Castle. :)
definitely think Faynights Castle is a better contender for being based on Corfe (except its not a ruin in the book). Even the location, with the Five being able to camp opposite Faynights across a valley, is true to life, as there's now a camp site across the valley from Corfe Castle, if I remember rightly. :-)
Last edited by Rob Houghton on 14 Apr 2017, 19:21, edited 1 time in total.
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Chrissie777 »

Julie2owlsdene wrote:I always thought that Eileen Soper's illustrations of Kirrin looked like Corfe Castle and Faynights Castle.
Me, too!
Chrissie

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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Anita Bensoussane »

Tony Summerfield wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but Gillian normally replied to that sort of question with the answer that she thought the person who asked her wanted to hear. I always remember the TV programme when she met the caddy on the golf course (I'm afraid as usual his name escapes me!) and greeted him warmly like a long lost friend. She told me afterwards that she had no recollection of having ever met him before.
The caddy was Gordon James, also known as Johnny James.
"Heyho for a starry night and a heathery bed!" - Jack, The Secret Island.

"There is no bond like the bond of having read and liked the same books."
- E. Nesbit, The Wonderful Garden.


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Rob Houghton
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Rob Houghton »

Tony Summerfield wrote:I'm sorry to say this, but Gillian normally replied to that sort of question with the answer that she thought the person who asked her wanted to hear.
And I'm guessing her mother probably answered in the same way! Just keeping her fans happy! 8)
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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Re: General Natter Room

Post by number 6 »

That's quite a good point. Maybe you're right, Rob! It's beyond me why Gillian would want to give out a false answer just to please someone. I never prompted her to suggest Kirrin Castle was based on Corfe Castle. I simply asked if it were based on a real Castle. Her answer was her own choice & it certainly wasn't influenced by myself! Maybe Gillian learnt a lot from her mother when she was younger, on how to be diplomatic when it comes to dealing with fans, etc. :D
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by timv »

My assumption has always been that Kirrin Castle wasn't taken directly from anywhere, but was a mixture of several different sites, as improved by Enid for the needs of her books. The Channel Islands location is probably the most important for the idea of a castle on an island - and Enid definitively wrote that it had inspired her. The actual island in question was thus either Lihou (more like Kirrin Island but no castle, only monastery ruins) or Elizabeth Castle island in St Helier harbour (a castle, but a Tudor fort not a rambling medieval building, and the building covers the entire island). The island may also be partly inspired by Burgh Island in Devon (right size, right type of cliffs, open to storms) if Enid did go golfing nearby at Thurlestone Bay.
For specific aspects of the castle, I think Corfe is more likely to have given Enid ideas on (a) the tall keep, which would seem to have been drawn by Eileen Soper with Corfe in mind. Ditto ES's illustrations of 'Faynights Castle'. Corfe was well known in the 1940s so ES would not have needed Enid to send her a photo or postcard. (b) the second building,the 'ruined room' adjacent to the keep, roofless by third book. There is one at Corfe, ie King John's 'Gloriette' building (c) the 'large blocks of stone guarding the dungeons entrance'. These are scattered around the inner courtyard at Corfe, being bits of wall blown up by the Parliamentarians after the siege in 1646 - photos of them to come in my book. But Enid invented the dungeons.
The 'windows in castle tower just visible from local camp site on hill' aspect of Faynights Castle fits exactly the view from the caravan site at Church Knowle, as I checked in 2015; the caravan site was in existence by 1962/3 (my father's map of caravan sites drawn then shows it) so was probably there when Enid wrote the book in 1951. I think that's as far as we can guess on reasonable evidence - so in a sense Corfe both 'is' and 'isn't' Kirrin Castle.
NB: has anyone else noticed the timing of publishing Five Have a Wonderful Time with relation to the real-life Burgess and Maclean defection to USSR drama of 1951? They were diplomats not scientists, but 'Terry-Kane' rhymes with Maclean - a hint by Enid?
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Rob Houghton
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Re: General Natter Room

Post by Rob Houghton »

timv wrote: The 'windows in castle tower just visible from local camp site on hill' aspect of Faynights Castle fits exactly the view from the caravan site at Church Knowle, as I checked in 2015; the caravan site was in existence by 1962/3 (my father's map of caravan sites drawn then shows it) so was probably there when Enid wrote the book in 1951.
Yes - that fits with what I remember. We came across a camp site quite by accident on a drive around the area (though I'm not sure it was Church Knowle - it was on a hill opposite Corfe Castle and the castle could plainly be seen), and the view of the castle across the valley was very similar to that described in Five Have A Wonderful Time.

Similar view to this -

Image
'Oh voice of Spring of Youth
hearts mad delight,
Sing on, sing on, and when the sun is gone
I'll warm me with your echoes
through the night.'

(E. Blyton, Sunday Times, 1951)



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