The Enid Blyton Society

Katharine wrote:I think I'm probably guilty of breaking rule 'a' several times over. :oops:

     I'm probably the worst violator of that; however, wandering off-topic does seem to be accepted here.
     I suppose it's difficult as a moderator to know where to set the boundary with regard to rules like this; but I am actually of the belief that it helps foster a community spirit to be fairly permissive about off-topic discussion. Besides, more often than not, totally off-topic conversation usually starts on topic and edges away from the topic so gradually that it would be impossible to say exactly at what point it became off-topic; so heavy-handed enforcing by moderators would be bound to upset someone along the way who thought they were being treated unfairly.
     I suppose it really depends on whether the moderators view the forum as a community of people who share an interest in Enid Blyton who will also share with each other their opinions on all sorts of other topics, or whether the forum is strictly a source of information about Enid Blyton and nothing more.

Moonraker wrote:Not sure about f. I rather like a good argument! :twisted:

     I suspect that's intended to apply merely to outright personal abuse or insult, not a debate *about* some real topic.

Regards, Michael.

I mostly don't mind off topic-ness.

In real life conversations on one topic evolve and naturally progress to wider discussions around a topic.

70s-child wrote:Oh by the way, Tony, I read your remark on another thread on the peculiar punctuation that some Indian posters use: "Something that has always fascinated me, is why so many people who have been educated in India put punctuation marks in the wrong place. They should come immediately after a word followed by a gap before the next word - xxx, xxx but more often than not the gap comes before the punctuation mark - xxx ,xxx... My question is, is this the way you are taught to do it in Indian schools?"
The answer is no! :D

     I've noticed people doing that, too - both here and in other places - but have never linked it to any particular country.

70s-child wrote:I grew up in India, and Indians who learn English in school (and that is a relatively small percentage of the total population), are taught correctly all right; but it is up to the learner to employ that learning and use the language correctly.

     That is odd, then. I wonder if they are using voice-recognition software and reading out what they want to say, and the program is configured wrongly, and puts in the punctuation wrongly. I can't think of any reason why anyone would *choose* to do that, and it seems difficult to believe they are just mistaken and think it should be that way.

Moonraker wrote:

70s-child wrote:By the way I have had to exercise great restraint and not point out their lousy punctuation to the person you are referring to. My feeling is that any comment from me will likely lead to a petulant outburst, for which I have neither the time nor indeed the stamina... :|

Yes. me too!

     Something I would suggest should be left strictly alone if you want to remain friends with people (unless they ask for your view about it). You have to ask yourself whether you consider it more important to be seen to be right, or to be on friendly terms with someone.

Moonraker wrote:There is also someone who never uses capitals for names of countries, but does for other proper nouns. I can't remember who it is, by why should this be?

     Are you sure it's not adjectives relating to countries that don't have capitals, Nigel? If they say "France" but "french", that might relate to the fact that, in some languages, that is actually how they do it: for instance, "Frankreich", but "französische"; "France" (or "La France"), but "française" - and so on. That's two languages that don't capitalize the adjectival forms of country names.
     Apparently it's normal for national adjectives of this sort not to be capitalized in some languages, and people from those countries may transfer the habit to the English language, either unaware of, or forgetting about, the fact that such adjectives are normally capitalized in English. (Actually, I see a trend to dropping these capitals in English, too - as in "french windows", "roman type", and so on - but I tend to regard this as careless usage rather than a new standard which is now correct. It just looks completely wrong and sloppy to me.)

Regards, Michael.

Michael I thought your comment about French doors, Roman type etc. interesting. I don't think it would have occurred to me that they ought to have capital letters, and I'm normally quite strict with myself about correct punctuation etc.

Maybe it's a good thing to go off topic if it helps me learn something.

MJE wrote: ...wandering off-topic does seem to be accepted here.
     I suppose it's difficult as a moderator to know where to set the boundary with regard to rules like this; but I am actually of the belief that it helps foster a community spirit to be fairly permissive about off-topic discussion. Besides, more often than not, totally off-topic conversation usually starts on topic and edges away from the topic so gradually that it would be impossible to say exactly at what point it became off-topic; so heavy-handed enforcing by moderators would be bound to upset someone along the way who thought they were being treated unfairly.

Occasionally I do split a topic into two different threads but the process is time-consuming and a bit awkward, so I avoid it unless absolutely necessary. Often it would be impossible to split a thread that has veered off course, as contributors frequently go off topic and back on topic within the same post. Like Fiona, I consider it as simply one of those things that tends to happen when you're having a 'conversation', and most of the time there seems to be no harm in leaving things as they are.

About punctuation, spelling and grammar, I find heavy use of netspeak/text-speak rude (a very occasional one-off word or phrase doesn't worry me too much) as it makes posts difficult to read - they almost have to be deciphered. Punctuation is a different matter as it's often hard to gauge whether people are being careless or don't actually know the rules. The same goes for grammar. We're all bound to make the odd typo or spelling error, but if someone knows they're likely to make a lot of those - one or more per sentence, for example - it would make their posts more readable if they were to spell-check them before posting. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a spell-check facility on the forums.

I must admit that what annoys me most when reading someone's posting is the 'text' speak. It's quite offensive to the eye. Fine on a phone when you're in a hurry etc, or like me, you don't know what to press to get a capital letter, but elsewhere it really shouldn't be used.

Quite a few newbies I've noticed start this way - hi i'm ...and i love enid blyton etc. It always makes me think, can't they write properly? We all make the odd spelling mistake which isn't as offensive I don't think.

Julie2owlsdene wrote:... 'text' speak.
...
Quite a few newbies I've noticed start this way - hi i'm ...and i love enid blyton etc. It always makes me think, can't they write properly?

     It can't be accidental or due to not knowing. I think it's quite deliberate - some people seem to think it makes them look "cool" to write like that. It may be due to outright laziness or just not caring in some cases; but anyone who wishes to discuss things and get on with people might do better to care a little bit about how they come across.

Regards, Michael (totally daggy, totally un-cool).

The occasional spelling mistake can be quite funny sometimes. I find posts with a lack of punctation and capital letters difficult to read though, and sometimes have actually given up trying to decipher them. Although I wouldn't want anyone to feel they can't post just because their grasp of English isn't perfect, especially if the person posting is a youngster or is using English as a second language. I quite like 'mistakes' in grammar from a non English forumite - it can show how complex constructing a sentence can be. I certainly wouldn't dare to criticize a non English speaker, as I wouldn't be able to write more than the most basic sentence in another language! However it would be nice if people at least used capital letters for a persons name etc. I can't help thinking Enid Blyton would be appalled if she saw anyone writing her name without capital letters at the beginning!

On the subject of grammar, I'm sure the above should have been split somewhere as it seems quite a long paragraph - just goes to show my grasp of English isn't perhaps quite as good as it could be either.

Julie, I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know how to get a capital letter when sending a text!

MJE wrote:

70s-child wrote:I grew up in India, and Indians who learn English in school (and that is a relatively small percentage of the total population), are taught correctly all right; but it is up to the learner to employ that learning and use the language correctly.

     That is odd, then. I wonder if they are using voice-recognition software and reading out what they want to say, and the program is configured wrongly, and puts in the punctuation wrongly. I can't think of any reason why anyone would *choose* to do that, and it seems difficult to believe they are just mistaken and think it should be that way.

No, I think it is simply the fact that learning a language, one that is not your native tongue, is very hard. I have been learning French for a while, but I can't speak it well at all. It's not enough to attend a class for an hour a week, and expect to pick it up and become fluent. It requires constant practice - total immersion in fact - to speak it even reasonably well. I know people who have spent a year or two in France, and who say they don't have a whole lot of fluency in the language (though they are orders of magnitude better than me). I also know this Mexican woman (her native tongue is Spanish), who lived in England for a decade, and who still speaks English rather oddly. Her English sentences are structured in the Spanish style. So for instance, instead of saying, "a man is standing there", she will likely say, "the man, he stands there". Similarly, consider the fact that in Francophone style, the period/decimal point is swapped for the comma, and vice-versa, when writing numbers. It becomes really complicated. So if you write a check (ok cheque!) for $1,234.56 in the Anglophone style, in the Francophone style it would be $1.234,56. I still have a hard time getting my head around this.

No Indian/sub-continental language has the punctuation style of English - so the comma, semi-colon, and the period are alien to sub-continental languages, as is capitalization - which is likely why posters from the sub-continent, who don't have enough proficiency in English, muddle their way through this. Though I do wish some of them - especially the older folks - would spend a bit of time working this out.

PS: Sorry, I have gone way off topic!

Katharine wrote:
Julie, I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know how to get a capital letter when sending a text!

We'll have to try and work it out at the E.B. Day, Katharine!

Julie2owlsdene wrote::lol: We'll have to try and work it out at the E.B. Day, Katharine! :lol:

8)

     I'm beginning to feel left out, stuck here in Australia. Is there ever going to be an Enid Blyton day here? I guess not - I suppose there just aren't enough people interested, compared to Britain.

Regards, Michael.

You could always organise one, Michael!

Julie2owlsdene wrote:

Katharine wrote:
Julie, I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't know how to get a capital letter when sending a text!

We'll have to try and work it out at the E.B. Day, Katharine!

On most phones the bottom left key or the bottom right key will change the typing format through lowercase/uppercase/numbercase. I have a touchphone now so I can't check it out.

Moonraker wrote:You could always organise one, Michael!

     I don't know enough people who are into Blyton, don't have the contacts.
     Also, unless things worked out right and there were enough people to pay an entry fee, the cost of a venue would probably fall on myself, and it would probably cost too much. And what would we do?
     I don't think trying to organize events is something to try unless you have knowledge of how to do such things.

Regards, Michael.

Why don't the Australian readers (I believe there are many) just meet up for a day, and just 'hang out' together? As the forumites did last May in Old Thatch... it wasn't anything formal, but everyone had a good time.